Contradictions and Problems


By
J. Wilfred Johnson
May 12th, 1976

Transcribed from C/Ds #51 & #52   
October 26, 2013 thru November 4, 2013


(Wilfred) Now I have just a few miscellaneous items in here to start out with tonight. I bumped into some of these things every once in a while and I would like to share them with you. There is one in Ezekiel 22:18 – 20. We have been talking about in the past concerning the sword of the Lord coming upon his people, how that He is going to bring it upon his people and that this will be a portion of the great and dreadful day that the Bible speaks of which will expand of course and into the total world picture. But God’s people will have a difficult experience which is designed to bring them to perfection. So, Ezekiel is talking about it here in chapter 22 starting with verse 18. “Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead in the midst of the furnace, they are even the dross of silver.” Do you recall that over in the ninth chapter he talks about the abominations when the sealing takes place? There are problems within God’s church that the Bible speaks of as abominations. And here He says that the house of Israel is to me become dross. Now I am not down grading the denomination in pointing this out. I am trying to point out the fact that God’s people are not what they are supposed to be and that’s the reason we are still here and God is about do something about it and I would like to see that you are prepared that when it comes it won’t throw you off your feet. That’s the motive, do you understand?

Now here He is talking about it again, 19 “Therefore thus saith the Lord God; because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.” Now what’s Jerusalem again?

(John) The church.

(Wilfred) He’s going to gather them into where?

(Many voices at once) Into the church.

(Wilfred) And where was it that these abominations were taking place back in Ezekiel 9?

(Several voices again) In the church.

(Wilfred) In the midst of Jerusalem. 20 “As they gather silver and brass and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you,” What’s He going to do?

(John) Melt them.

(Wilfred) Melt them. Put you in that furnace and He is going to leave you there until you melt. That’s what it says. Do you think it’s a God of love when He talks about his fury, and He’s going to pour his fury upon his people, do you think it is a God of love? Yes it is because if He didn’t do it the perfection of his people would not be accomplished and He would have to come and smite the earth with a curse. Which would you rather have? 21 “Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. 22 As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof;” Now here’s the conclusion, you got it there? “And ye shall know that I the Lord have poured out my fury upon you.” Who’s doing it?

(A man in the audience) The devil.

(Wilfred) Not the devil. Not the Devil. The Lord. What kind of a furnace, well, let me but it this way. What devise does God use to do this with? What constitutes his furnace?

(Many voices again) His church. They are trials. (And other opinions)

(Wilfred) Well they are all good answers. We gave you a pamphlet last date to look through. Did you look through it?

(John) It’s his sword.

(Wilfred) It’s his sword. I should read you that text I think it’s in Isaiah. He is going to come and fight them with the sword of his mouth, it says. That’s how He comes. Now what is the sword?

(A man) His Word.

(Wilfred) His Word. And how is the Word going to cause this problem?

(John) It’s sharpened and furbished.

(Wilfred) Yes, and what does it mean?

(John) It means we are going to be called fanatics and off beats and...

(Wilfred) How come?

(John) Because we don’t see things in the same way that our brethren have seen them in the past and have seen them for years and years even since 1844.

(Wilfred) How come we are going to see them differently?

(Another man) Because the sword is sharpened and furbished.

(Wilfred) The sword is sharpened and furbished, what does that mend?

(Same man) Expanding truth.

(Wilfred) Right, expanding truth. Did you read this? I shouldn’t ask you to put your hands up to see how many did but I wanted to ask if there were any questions that arose in the mind as a result of reading it? Are there any things that puzzled you, any problems? Because I don’t think that I’ll go through this with you, I could but I don’t think I will. I’ve got other things I want to move into. But there are quotations in here that should give you a background so that you will be able to understand what we are talking about as we move on. Are there any questions? Any comments? Anything you want to bring up? Any doubts?

Now here is another one then that I want to share with you. Hosea 2:19 & 20. Someone was asking me about the marriage of the Lamb. Now there is more to it than what is given in these two verses but this is just something that throws a bit of light on it. We talked about Christ going into the most holy apartment to the wedding. Do you remember? What wedding? Who’s He gong to be married to? Well, his Kingdom it says. Married to his Kingdom. What is his Kingdom?

(John) His people in his church.

(Wilfred) There are two things that constitute the Kingdom: the territory and the people who are in the territory. We call it the Kingdom of grace and the Kingdom of Glory. The Kingdom of Grace is the Kingdom within the heart and He rules his people by planting the law in their hearts and they respond out of love to Him, in fact their mind, and will, and heart are so in tune with his that they simple respond to their own inclinations. And as they do so they are responding to his will. That’s the Kingdom of grace. The Kingdom of Glory is the Kingdom with all its glory. I mean the literal physical Kingdom. And Sister White tells us and I think I have those statements to read here. Sister White tells us that He does not receive his physical Kingdom until the second coming. He receives his spiritual Kingdom by the close of probation, that’s when the marriage is consummated. So there are two phases to the marriage, do you understand? Two interpretations, two meanings, one folds and unfolds from the other. Christ comes to the temple in 1844. William Miller preached this but he misunderstood it. Christ came to his temple, the most holy apartment of the temple, there to cleanse the temple, the sanctuary, his people, and to consummate the marriage and that will be completed by the end of probation. So He receives his Kingdom by the end of probation and I read you that statement in Early Writings, I could read it to you again but it’s here on page 280. Then she also says that He does not receive his Kingdom until the second coming. So there’s another one of these contradictions again, do you understand? And until you get the idea of these two comings of Christ, the secret coming which involves his coming to his temple for the marriage and that is tied in with the latter rain. And the literal coming, at the literal coming He receives the other.

Well now we are back in here to the most holy apartment where this wedding takes place, and here’s what He says about it; 19 “And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:” Have you ever heard of an engagement like that? Yes, parts of it but not other parts, right? This is the Lord’s commitment to his people; and I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, in judgment, in lovingkindness, and in mercies, and in faithfulness and here’s the result. “And thou shalt know the Lord.” Right back to that same principle that if you know God you’re going to love Him. If you love Him you are going to keep his commandments and that is the essence of the plan of salvation. To know God is life eternal.

Well, I won’t spend any more time on that one.

Now I have another one here. Some quotations with reference to the resurrection. I thought I’d squeeze those in here. We talked a little bit about it and I think it would be nice to talk a little more. And incidentally I’m building up to one of the most difficult truths that I will be presenting to you. Whether I get to it tonight I am not sure, it will be tonight probably or next week.

Great Controversy 644, “All come forth from their graves the same in stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature but little below the Son of God.” How tall is he?

(Same man) Shorter than Jesus.

(Wilfred) And how tall is Adam.

(Another man) About fourteen feet.

(Wilfred) In another statement she says more than twice the height of men today. So that would be somewhat over twelve anyway. So then the Son of God being a little higher than Adam would probably be somewhere around fifteen feet or what have you. That’s just an estimate. “He presents a marked contrast to the people of the later generations; in this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race. But all arise with the freshness and vigor of eternal youth. In the beginning, man was created in the likeness of God, not only in character, but in form and feature. All blemishes and deformities are left in the grave.” Good, maybe that crooked ear will be straightened out. That loped-sided nose and that eye that isn’t as big as the other one and so on. And that limb that’s missing or a kidney or something else.

Desire of Ages 804, “The resurrection of Jesus was a type of the final resurrection of all who sleep in Him. As Jesus arose from the dead, so those who sleep in Him are to rise again.” I would like to point out to you however that that type, the way we see it at the present moment is not complete because Jesus was raised into the same body that went into the tomb. But with people who have died subsequently and previously with but few exceptions have gone to the tomb and their bodies have degenerated and deteriorated and there is nothing left. Some of them were eaten by sharks in the ocean some were blown to bits in an explosion and the Bible says that the graves are open and the dead come forth, you know, the idea is that they are reformed down below the ground six feet some place where they were buried and then the ground opens up so they can come out. This cannot be a complete picture of the resurrection it just cannot be because there are many people who are not in graves. Some are cremated. So you’ll have to take these things with a grain of salt. You’ll have to understand that there is a symbolism in here that is not complete. Just because it says that Jesus’ resurrection was a type of those who sleep in him does not mean that everybody is going to come through in that particular fashion, necessarily. But if it is a complete type we’ve got a problem. Not an insurmountable problem but a problem. I‘d better leave it at that.

OK, it’s interesting to note that Jesus came forth then from the tomb in the same stature that He went in, right? How big was he?

(Same man) Unintelligible

(Wilfred) The same size as they were back there. I don’t know whether He was a tall person or a short person or in between. Maybe Mrs. White says something about it I can’t recall having read it. Does anybody know?

(Many voices) unintelligible

(John) He was slightly taller than the average person.

(Still many voices) unintelligible

(Wilfred) But the point is He was shorter than when Adam comes up in the resurrection. That is the point. So what has happened to Jesus? He has grown. What does it say happens to the saints in Isaiah? We are going to grow up like calves in the stall.

3rd Spiritual Gifts page 34 she says that Adam was more than twice as tall as men now, so he would be at least thirteen feet maybe better. Some people have even estimated fifteen. But anyway he would be between 13 and 15 feet tall I would think.

Desire of Ages 804. “We shall know our friends, even as the disciples knew Jesus.” After his resurrection. But did you notice that some of them didn’t know Him at first. The Bible says their eyes were “holden”. In other words they couldn’t see straight. But it was an interference with the sight mechanism. However they were permitted to see Jesus and to recognize Him, Mary didn’t recognize Him at first either, did she? Maybe she didn’t look up.

(Same man) She thought He was the gardener.

(Wilfred) She thought He was the gardener. So I’m suspicious that we won’t be exactly like we are now. We can’t be if the blemishes are removed there will be some differences; we’ll have to get use to each other again. But she does say something about the character and personality being the same I think I came across that. “They may have been deformed, diseased, or disfigured, in this mortal life, and they rise in perfect health and symmetry;” Ahhh, there it is that crooked ear is going to be straight. “Yet in their glorified body their identity will be preserved.

6 Bible Commentary page 1093, “Our personal identity is preserved in the resurrection, though not the same particles of matter or material substance as went into the grave.” All right now, there’s a thought. So the fellow that was blown to bits can be recreated out of other material than was actually in his body at that point. Well that’s no particular problem because after all, practically every particle in my body now is different from what it was ten years ago it has been completely replaced. But I am not sure about the bones and certainly the teeth aren’t totally replaced if at all. But other parts of the body are. Finger nails, they replace in about six months it takes about six months for the cells that are being formed down there in the generating factory to get out to the tip and you snip them off. I’ve lost that one twice by a stupid accident letting a piece of furniture drop on it, stuff like that. It comes off then about six months later it’s grown out again. It’s not as good as the original one it’s got some deformity in it. It’s got some streaks down the middle and at the tip where it comes out the nail isn’t very good and it keeps chipping off in there. So I have to keep it trimmed a little extra. That’s what you get for being careless. Anyway the Lord is going to bring substances together, furthermore we are not going to have the same chemistry in the body as we have now, it’s going to be different, it’s going to be a glorified body. And precisely what material substance the Lord needs to make that Glorified body I don’t know but He can start with what we’ve got and change it because there are going to be a hundred and forty four thousand people go through that experience. He can also recreate a body and change it and just how He’s going to do that I am not positive.  

“The wondrous works of God are a mystery to man. The spirit, the character of man, is returned to God,” Did you get that? She identifies the spirit with the character here so she’s using the word spirit in a rather new sense and probably the word character too although I think she means by character the personality.

(John) The record of a person.

(Wilfred) The personality, yes it would constitute a record. “It is returned to God there to be preserved.” She says. “In the resurrection every man will have his own character.” In the resurrection he will have his own character. You’re not going to come up with someone else’s character. You come up with your own.

I am going to go ahead of myself just a bit because I want you to get this point and I may forget it when I come to that stage.  

When Jesus was born in Bethlehem and grew up as a boy in Nazareth who was He? He was somebody who had already existed, right? Whose character did He have? He had his own character. That’s the thing that constituted Him as being Christ, primarily. He brought with Him from heaven his character, his individual personality. He was Christ the Son of God, nobody else. And that’s the way we’re going to come forth. We’re going to come forth as the person that we were. But the body isn’t the thing that really counts. Jesus came forth in a different body than the one He had before, right? When He was born? That is that He came here in a different body. Now you’re going to say, now brother Johnson that’s the incarnation that’s not the resurrection. Ahhhhh, just hold it a minute. When Jesus was in the cradle in Bethlehem in that manger was there a Christ in heaven?

(John) No.

(Wilfred) Then where was his mind and consciousness and personality and all the rest of it?

(John) It was wrapped up in that little baby in the cradle.

(Wilfred) Before He was born was He conscience? Eight months before He was born was He conscience? Was He in heaven? Then he was asleep, right? What I want you to understand is that Christ actually died the death of sleep before He came to this world, that’s what I am trying to point out. And on the cross He died the second death which is the death of the sinner from which there’s no hope of a resurrection. But the first death is the death of sleep. Is that right? And from sleep you wake up, don’t you? Did Christ wake up? Yes, He did. He came to. He grew up. And at some point along the route He realized who He was.

(John) At the age of twelve.

(Wilfred) We can’t be too specific here. I think He had knowledge of his identity before that but at the age of twelve when He came to the temple and saw the sacrifice at that point He was impressed with the sense of his mission and the fact that He personally was that Lamb.

(John) That was at twelve.

(Wilfred) That was at twelve. Now whether He had a memory of this, whether this was a little snatch of memory coming back to Him that He could remember something that He had thought of when He was in heaven before, I can’t identify that. Nor can I find anyplace in all of the gospels or in the Bible for that matter where it positively says that Jesus at some point in time had a memory of his former existence. I haven’t found it. I have been looking. I am of the opinion that there were times when He had flashes of memory but I doubt if there was any time when He had a full revelation of his former existence as such. But I don’t know, I have no proof, can’t find it, I am just giving you my own opinion on that point. There are reasons for thinking that He did not have memory of his former existence. But it’s difficult for me to think that He did not have snatches like we have. Right? We get a little snatch of something that happened fifteen years ago, but we don’t remember everything about it just a little bit about it. Then you say, Why do you say that Brother Johnson? How come, don’t you think that He could remember everything that ever happened in all past history? Physically no, I don’t think He could because twelve billion brain cells could not be adequate to compose that type of computer memory. But that He could tap into it. Through revelation yes He could have had it. But Sister White points out that he used in his own behalf no power that is not freely available to us. And I would think that if He had a full-blown consciousness of everything that has ever happened to his future existence that He would have an advantage. We’re not going to get that. She says that anything that He had or used in his own behalf is available to us. And there is no indication anyplace that we are going to get that. Well we are dealing with something that is obscure here.

(John) There are two statements to verity what you are saying. It says, so utterly was Christ emptied of self that He made no plans for himself. He excepted God’s plans for him and day by day the Father unfolded his plans. So He didn’t know what they were in advance. And then it goes on to say, so we should depend upon God that our lives may be the simple out-working of his will. Again the examples. And that statement when He was twelve it says, Day by day He saw their meaning more clearly. This was the impressive rites of the paschal service. Every act seemed to be bound up with his own life. New impulses were awakening within Him, silent and absorbed He seemed to be studying out the great problem, the mystery of his mission was opening to the saviour.

(Wilfred) Ok. Now, I told you before I am leading up to something. So hang on to these points. Jesus did reach the point where He could say “Before Abraham was I am”. Now whether that was based just on his conviction of his mission without any knowledge of or without any conscience memory of his former existence I cannot positively say. And if you come across anything that has any bearing on that subject I would really appreciate you sharing it with us.

(Another woman) Unintelligible

(Wilfred) My personal opinion is that in his day-by-day walk in this life on this earth He was not conscience of his former existence directly only as it was revealed to Him by inspiration, which I think He had flashes of it. But I do not believe He had full direct access to his former mind. Now, I’d better state that in a different way, He had the power to tap in but He had voluntarily excluded himself from it. It is my thinking that when He left heaven to take upon himself humanity, in doing that He divested himself of the former memory. He went to sleep in the same sense that you and I go to sleep at night and when we wake up in the morning we wake up, BUT we wake up to our memory of our former days of existence, we can remember back to say five or six years of age maybe a little further some things not very much. The further back you go the less you know, you just remember very isolated incidents. You can remember quite a bit of what happened yesterday. In no way could you sit down and write a complete diary of what went on in your life yesterday. Can you? I think you would get bogged down.  

(Another man) He understood his position and relationship with the Godhead...

(Wilfred) Yes He did, his knowledge and understanding were complete so far as his personality and his position and everything else was concerned.

(A woman) He asked to be shown the glory...

(Wilfred) Did He for Himself?

(A woman) He said show me the glory...

(Wilfred) It must be a different translation than the one I’ve got.

(John) It was for the disciples.

(Wilfred) I think in the King James Version it says, Glorify thou me with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Now to glorify Him, what does that mean? It would mean to reveal his glory I would think. Which is what?

(Same woman) Unintelligible

(Wilfred) And what was He talking about in that prayer? You don’t remember? For his disciples to love another as his Father loved Him and He loved the Father and that’s his glory, his character of love, self-renunciation.

(Same woman) ...that memory. Would He have it now?

(Wilfred) Maybe we’ll just leave that until we get a little further on.

What does it mean to lose your memory? To be asleep? It’s a death isn’t? I mean, for all practical purposes you are dead to your past if you have lost your memory. If your memory is suddenly cut off right now, you are still alive here in terms of the present and you could see and hear and all the rest of it. Now this experience has happened to a number of people they have suffered from what is known as amnesia. And I am suspicious that most of these cases are a direct interference of evil spirits. And there is certainly good evidence for that. I would not say all of them, some people for instance have an accident, they get a bang on the head and suddenly they lose their memory. Well, that’s different there is damage to the brain. But other types of amnesia caused by emotional stress and so on are probably related to the devils activities. And the memory completely disappears and the individual continues to function and operate but can’t remember a thing that had ever happened past a certain point. They don’t know who they are and yet the habits they have formed, the habitual structure which is a form of memory but not conscience, remains intact. They can still walk they can talk and they can perform and can eat and so on.

It is possible for a person to be alive like Jesus was and be somebody who has lived but not remember that particular thing. Do you see what I mean? This was the experience of Jesus when He was a boy in Nazareth He was living and He had a limited memory back to...

(John) To four or five or so.

(Wilfred) Yes. And yet He was a person who lived from eternity. Now I would like you to understand that I think it is an important point. Because Jesus went to sleep and I’ve explained before that in the heavenly sanctuary which is the real thing of which the earthly sanctuary was a symbol. The lamb was slain in the outer court as a sacrifice, right? The blood was shed and the blood represents the life. Now Christ was the true sacrifice nobody slew Him as such, He volunteered to lay down his life. Well He had to do that before He could be a little seed in Mary’s womb. Can’t you see that? Otherwise He couldn’t become that human Christ. So He went to sleep voluntarily, the sacrifice that we talk about in the sanctuary service took place in the heavenly sanctuary before He ever came to this world. That was as the Lamb then after his experience in this world and his resurrection He went to heaven and where did He go? Back to that sanctuary but not now as the sacrifice all over again, no he was offered once for the sins of the world. Now He went in says Paul as the high priest, the mediator, that’s what the Bible says. You see, He was both sacrifice and mediator. So there are two phases. And in the Old Testament He was the sacrifice. In the New Testament He is the mediator. Under the Old Covenant, sacrifice, that’s how your sins are forgiven, they are covered by his sacrifice. In the New Testament the purpose of the mediation of Christ is to bring about the perfection of his people. That’s the purpose of it. And it takes place through the transference of your sins to the first apartment of the sanctuary. And the true sanctuary is what? Christ. And the second part of that which takes place on the Day of Atonement is the cleansing of the sanctuary and that started in 1844. When that outer door was shut and the inner door was opened and that’s the work that has been going on since 1844. The investigative judgment and the cleansing of the sanctuary and when it is completed then Christ has preformed the functions of which the sacrificial service in the Old Testament typified. He has completed it He has gone the whole round and He lays down his robes and the Kingdom is reestablished.

Now we have some things to pick up in connection with this sacrifice and in connection with this incarnation of Christ and His crucifixion and his resurrection and so on. We’ll try to sort these out as we go along.

Here is Great Controversy, pages 322, 323. “Not until the personal advent of Christ can His people receive the kingdom.” Do you remember what I said to you at the beginning tonight? “Not until the personal advent of Christ can His people receive the kingdom.”

Now let me read this other one.

This is "The Third Message Closed", page 280 in Early Writings. She has just finished talking about the close of probation when the decree went forth of the declaration that He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and so on. “Every case had been decided for life or death. While Jesus had been ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the righteous dead, and then for the righteous living. Christ had received His kingdom, having made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The subjects of the kingdom were made up. The marriage of the Lamb was consummated. And the kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was given to Jesus and the heirs of salvation, and Jesus was to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.” Well it looks like a contradiction. But I have explained to you that it has two meanings. There are two comings; the coming of Christ to the most holy of his temple by the Holy Ghost and when that latter rain is poured out this temple is going to be purified and it will go with Christ into the most holy, which is a symbolic thing of the holiness of God. Isn’t that understandable? We follow Christ into the sanctuary, the dwelling place of God. Putting it the other way around, He’s knocking on the door. The Laodicean message, remember? He’s knocking on the door. If any man opens the door, what happens?

(John) I will come in.

(Wilfred) And what?

(John) Sup with him.

(Wilfred) And sup with him. Do you see the reference there to the last supper? And John 6? And the former body and blood of Christ? If you don’t eat my flesh and drink my blood you’ve got no life in you, Jesus said. And that was a tough saying and a lot of people didn’t stay with Him after that one. Because they didn’t understand what He meant. And I hope that we won’t get hung up on that and not understand what He means and throw it away, it’s vital. Why do you think He took time at that last supper? He didn’t eat the Passover the way they normally ate it, it was a new thing that He establish there. Why? Well because the sacrificial service was finishing at the cross. Now He was going into a new type of service, ministering his blood in the heavenly sanctuary and what is his blood?

(John) His life.

(Wilfred) And what is his life?

(John) The Holy Spirit.

(Wilfred) Right. And He says I will pray the Father, there’s his mediation, and He will send you what?

(Several voices) The Comforter.

(Wilfred) Another comforter. Which is the Holy Ghost. This is the soul of Christ’s eternal life. This is the life which He relinquished in the heavenly sanctuary before He took on humanity. He had to. He could not have come in that form into humanity nor could He have gone to sleep, God never sleeps. He had eternal life in himself; in order for Him to die He had to relinquish it. And He had to die the second death, and in order to die the second death He must first die the first one. So He died the death of sleep. But before He did He gave up the Ghost. Just like Jacob did and just like He did on the cross. On the cross He gave up what Ghost?

(John) The Human Ghost.

(Wilfred) The Human Ghost. The same one that you and I have to give up when we die. In the heavenly sanctuary what Ghost did He give up? The Holy Ghost, eternal life, immortality, life in Himself. Who’s going to get that?

(John) The saints.

(Wilfred) That’s exactly right. And Sister White says in The Desire of Ages that He died the death which was ours, which is the eternal death she says which there is no hope of a resurrection, Early Writings, He died that death, the death which was ours in order that we might receive the life which WAS his. Is that plain? That’s in The Desire of Ages.

Ok, we got side tracked again here a little bit. I could give you text for this Spiritual kingdom if you want them. Matt. 4:17 and Luke 17:20,21, Mark 1:15 and I’ll quote from the seventh volume of The Testimonies for the Church, page 143. “The kingdom of God comes not with outward show. It comes through the gentleness of the inspiration of His Word, through the inward working of His Spirit, the fellowship of the soul with Him who is its life. The greatest manifestation of its power” That is the Kingdom’s power. “Is seen in human nature brought to the perfection of the character of Christ.” Don’t you see there that the restoration of the Kingdom of God within you constitutes the restoration of the perfection of the character of Christ in you? See that? Or do you want me to read it again?

(A woman) Can you read the last sentence?

(Wilfred) All right. “The greatest manifestation of its power”. It’s talking about the Kingdom. The power of the Kingdom of God. “The greatest manifestation of its power is seen in human nature brought to the perfection of the character of Christ.” She is commenting here about these texts, Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand, Time is fulfilled and the Kingdom of God is at hand. The kingdom of God cometh not with observation, the margin says, without show, neither shall they say, Lo, here or Lo there for behold the Kingdom of God is within you. That’s what he’s talking about. And that’s the one that takes place when?

(John) During the marriage union.

(Wilfred) Right, so do you see then that the Kingdom is restored before the close of probation? And it is given into the hands of Jesus she says and the saints. Why? Why Jesus and the saints? O listen, because Jesus and the saints constitute the new body of Christ which replaces the one that He lived in before He came into the one in Mary’s womb. Did you get that? He is the head of that new body and each of the hundred and forty four thousand is a member in particular and it takes them all to reconstruct the image of that former body.

They eat the flesh and drink the blood, they communed with God, they open the door and He comes in to sup with them. When the Holy Ghost comes to his temple suddenly to purify and cleanse them He brings also the restoration of the former body and blood of Christ. And that has a broader meaning, the body is his Word and the blood is his Spirit. And when that word is put into those brain cells of yours and the Spirit comes to water the soil to give life to the word there is reconstructed in there the image of the mind of Christ. But it takes a hundred and forty four thousand of them to replace that gigantic mind that Christ relinquished when He took on that little brain of Jesus. Do you see the condescension of Christ? See what He did? Well you may not believe that but, if you don’t believe it just stick it the pantry shelf someday you’ll see it,

(A woman) Mr. Johnson what did you say the blood represented?

(Wilfred) The life. It says that in the Old Testament. And the Spirit of Prophecy says the life of Christ is the Holy Spirit.  

Now The Desire of Ages 509, “Not by the decisions of courts or councils or legislative assemblies, not by the patronage of worldly great men, is the kingdom of Christ established,” Get this now! Here is how the Kingdom of God is established again. The Kingdom of Christ. “But by the implanting of Christ's nature in humanity through the work of the Holy Spirit.” Isn’t that bearing out what I said? The mind of Christ is reproduced in the human mind when the Holy Spirit is implanted in humanity. That’s it.

Now what is the Holy Spirit? Well, It’s a mystery. There are aspects to it, but one aspect of it is that it is the soul of Christ. I’ve given it to you before. It was last Sabbath afternoon I think. It also says that the Holy Spirit is the very life of Christ and it’s the life of the Word and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, the Word was Christ. So the Spirit is the life of Christ in that sense too.

All right. Oh I can’t help but to give you this one in passing, although it’s not quite related, it’s not very closely related. This is in John 5, 25 plus a little bit. 25 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God:” Oh yes, it is relevant I’m glad I read it. “The dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall Live.“ And again it says, 28 “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth;”  What about those that are blown to bits and those who are eaten by the sharks and those that are cremated? It says here; all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth.

(John) I think the Bible talks of the grave as the place of death, the place of sleep.

(Wilfred) Good, that’s what I wanted to get.

(John) It isn’t a lliteral "being put in Loam".

(Wilfred) Good. Is everybody clear on that? That when the Bible talks about the grave it’s not talking about a hole in the ground. And when it says that the graves were opened and the dead came forth it may not be talking about that. Have you got that point?

I am still leading up to something.  

Furthermore I want to ask you this question. If a man is dead in the grave how can He hear the voice of the Son of God? He would have to be alive before he could hear the voice. But the Bible says he’s got to hear the voice and then he becomes alive. Figure that one out.

(John) With most of those people there is no ears left. (Much laughter) I don’t mean it to be funny they have been eaten by maggots, they’ve grown into carrots, and leaves, and caterpillars everything else.

(Wilfred) We’ve got the point. We’ve got the point, when the Bible talks about the dead hearing the voice of the Son of God and the graves opening up and people coming out IT IS SYMBOLIC. It cannot be literal. I think I’ve shown that, haven’t I? You don’t believe it maybe because you have been steeped into the other philosophies for so long. Do you remember that statement I read to you before, let’s see, where is it? Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that there are not people who come out of the grave but you are going to have to take that language in the Bible as symbolic. You cannot take it literally. Lazarus came out of the grave, Ok? I believe that.

(John) That was literal.

(Wilfred) That was literal. Jesus came out of the grave that was literal. Moses came out that was literal. But every last one of these people who came out, the widow’s son. There were two widow’s son. There was the one that was raised in the days of Elijah and there were others. But every last one of these came into a body that was still there. That is the point I want you to get. I hope that you get that. And it is in that sense that I say, when the Bible talks about the graves opening and the people coming out that it is symbolic language, it has to be. Because a dead man cannot hear the voice of the Son of God until he is alive. So he was raised from the dead before he heard the voice. Then how could the voice raise him from the dead? Do you understand what I am saying? Or am I getting too difficult here?

Don’t forget this little caution; To say that a passage means just this and nothing more that you must not attach any broader meaning to the words of Christ than we have in the past is saying that which is not actuated by the Spirit of God. Don’t forget that. You are going to come across things in the Bible, and this is one of them where if you become too literalistic in your thinking you’re going to miss a very important point. We talk about Jesus coming into the heart and down in the kindergarten we make a little heart you know paint it nice and red and then we put covers on it, but before we put the covers on it we put a picture of Jesus on it. Then we put the covers over the heart, and there’s the heart. Then we talk to the little children and then we say now when Jesus comes into your heart and then we tell them what happens and then we open up the covers and see, there is Jesus in the heart. Now what kind of notions are these kids getting anyway? I have heard some good educators talk about this, although I thought about it before they talked about it, but that means nothing I suppose. The reason I thought about it and the reason I’m talking about it is, it made an awful mess of my thinking for a while until I got straightened around as to what kind of language God uses and what it means. And we want to be careful how we teach these kids, not to give them such weird ideas as Christ comes into your heart. Well I want to come into your heart, why don’t we talk logically. Why don’t we translate that Bible language into terms that the kids can understand?

Now what I am trying to do with you is to share some things that God, or you can say the devil if you want to. But I’ve spent quite a few years checking it in all directions to find out whether it’s God or the devil and I can have only one conclusion in my own thinking and if I didn’t have that conclusion I wouldn’t be talking to you tonight. But God has permitted some of these things to become realistic in my thinking. And that is a prayer I offered to Him many years back, I just asked Him to make his Word realistic, sensible, logical, so that I could understand it and it made sense then He could count on me committing my life to Him because I didn’t feel I could do it without understanding his Word. What can you do for others when you don’t understand it yourself? For me to go around and tell somebody you must let Jesus come into your heart I couldn’t fancy this because anybody with half a brain could say back to me, What do you mean by that? And I would say, well I don’t know. Well, what are you trying to tell me. I can’t function that way. If a man ask me, what do you mean Jesus comes into your heart? The Bible says that you have to be ready to give an answer, that’s what it says. And I say; Lord I can’t give an answer. Well then the Bible says; if you lack wisdom it tells you what to do. Ask, and that is what I did, I asked. What else could I do? I asked dozens and dozens of men, ministers and everybody and I couldn’t get any answers that were any better than what I had and I am not slandering ministers. I think the Lord permitted this to happen for a specific reason. The same thing He did with William Miller. He let William Miller preach for about twelve years that Christ was coming in 1843 and when He didn’t, well, 1844. And William Miller was telling something that wasn’t strictly correct wasn’t he? But he was sincere and honest and the Lord was behind him and God had a purpose in doing it. And I think this is true. So don’t feel that I’m slandering ministers, I’m simply trying to speak a situation. I could bombard you with questions that you couldn’t answer and someone else who doesn’t have faith in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy someday is going to bombard you with those questions. And I’m trying to do my level best to fulfill my commitment to God to share with you what He showed me because I asked Him to show it to me and He did it. And when I asked Him to show it I said, if you do it I will do anything you want me to do, not knowing what He was going to ask me to do. And then when He asked me to do it, the Bible says, better that you should not make a vow at all than that you make a vow and don’t fulfill it. So I’m fulfilling my vow here tonight and next week at the risk of severe criticism because I’m going to be talking about something that will be very difficult for you to adjust to. But it comes right out of the books.

If you are willing to open that mind of yours to take a square look at these paradoxes that there is no explanation for and then take a look at the key, which I am going to give you, the key will resolve all those paradoxes so they’ll fit and make sense. But you’ll say, oh, but it can’t be like that. No, I can’t... That’s what you are going to say. That’s what you are going to say. How do I know? Because people have done it before. I know one fellow, an intelligent man, thirty years ago that I gave that key to and he just rebelled against it. He as much has told me that there was something wrong with me upstairs, I needed a little attention. Today, he has thanked me for telling him. He has seen that it answers the questions. And there are many people across the nation who are coming up with these questions now, they’re coming up and they haven’t got the answers and this man recognizes that he’s got the answers and he knew where he got them thirty years ago.

How many of these do I need to read to reinforce your minds? Are you convinced yet that God has some things for us that we probably haven’t paid too much attention to yet? Let me read one. It’s from Christ’s Object Lessons page 112 and I think that’s the old edition again. “No one can search the Scriptures in the spirit of Christ without being rewarded. When man is willing to be instructed as a little child,” That’s the first condition. So you’d better put on your childish cloak. “When he submits wholly to God,” So you’d better make that total surrender. Those are two conditions now. If you don’t do it you won’t see it. That’s what it’s saying. “He will find the truth in His word. If men would be obedient,” That’s the third one. “They would understand the plan of God's government.” That’s the first thing they would understand, the plan of God’s government. Have you been seeing any things about the plan of God’s government in our discussions at all? Have you been seeing things about God’s government? I hope you have. “The heavenly world would open its chambers of grace and glory for exploration. Human beings would be altogether different from what they now are,” Are you getting this? I don’t know whether I am either I read it so many times that I don’t think about what I’m reading. “The heavenly world would open its chambers of grace and glory for exploration." Now can you go up there and explore? Well then how is it going to open its chambers for exploration?

(A woman) Through the study of his Word.

(Wilfred) Through the study of his Word, there’s the explanation for it there. And you may even have another experience something like Paul had. Do you remember what happened to Paul? Yes, he says, I was caught up into the third heaven, I don’t know whether I was in the body or not I don’t know that, but I was caught up there. Did he do some exploring up there? Yes, he did. And there are going to be people according to my Bible in this last day that are going to have similar experiences. “Human beings would be altogether different from what they now are, for by exploring the mines of truth men would be ennobled.” Now here’s the second thing that would happen. “The mystery of redemption, would not be as it is now, vague in our minds, the incarnation of Christ would not be as it is now, vague in our minds, That’s just what she says only she puts the two together. I split them up. Now I’ll read it as she said it lest somebody should accuse me of misquoting it. “The mystery of redemption, the incarnation of Christ, and His atoning sacrifice, would not be as they are now, vague in our minds, They would be not only better understood, but altogether more highly appreciated.”

There are so many others I would like to read here. I’ve read them before and I don’t like to have you feel that I’m repeating too much but some of you folks weren’t here when we read them and you’ve got to have them. Can I read just one more?

Education page 171. “God intends that to the earnest seeker the truths of His word shall be ever unfolding.” That is you never hit a dead-end street like the Laodiceans who think they have it all. You are not going to do that. It’s supposed to ever unfold. And because the Laodiceans have hit a dead-end street and they think they have it all, according to the Laodicean message, God is going to spew them out of his mouth and you read that article from last week I hope. “While the secret things belong unto the Lord our God, those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children. The idea that certain portions of the Bible cannot be understood has led to neglect of some of its most important truths.” Now listen, this is what I want you to get. “The fact needs to be emphasized, and often repeated,” And I’ll say right here that I have never heard it emphasized once, not once, in all the years I have been an Adventist until I read this myself. “And often repeated.” What should be emphasized, and often repeated? Well here it is. “That the mysteries of the Bible are not such because God has sought to conceal truth, but because our own weakness or ignorance makes us incapable of comprehending or appropriating truth.” I want to tell you something, if you cannot understand some of the mysteries of God it’s not because God is trying to hold them back from you. It’s because of your weakness, you’re not old enough yet, you are too weak in the Christian faith or ignorance. You haven’t studied enough or you haven’t fulfilled these other conditions that I just read you. You know, being like a little child, submitting wholly to God, obedient, you haven’t fulfilled those conditions. That’s why you don’t understand God’s mysteries. And when somebody talks to you about something and you say, oh, no, that’s a mystery we don’t understand that, we’re not suppose to understand that. Nobody understands that. Don’t ever talk like that. Just because you don’t understand something in God’s Word that doesn’t mean that somebody doesn’t. People just show their ignorance when they talk like that. They are simply saying, Well I don’t understand it so nobody else should, really, because after all look who I am. And what they are really saying is, although they don’t know it, Well, I don’t understand that because I’m ignorant or I’m weak, or I’m not obedient, or I’m not submitting wholly to God, or I don’t have the attitude of a little child. That’s what they are saying if these statements are correct. I won’t say any more on those. I think I have read enough to get the thought across but there are many more I could emphasize.

We’ve got about three quarters of an hour I guess. I’m going to continue to lead up to something and when I think we are thoroughly prepared and then I’ll zero in on it. And I may not get to it tonight. But we will get as far as we can.

And meanwhile I hope that you will hang on to the things we’re discussing tonight and next week. Hang on to them and don’t start discussing them with someone else who is totally foreign to the things we have been thinking about. They might get a missed concept of what we are trying to do. And believe you me my motive in sharing this with you is purely to fulfill my vow to God. I am not interested in causing a commotion or causing confusion, or causing anyone mental disturbance because of it. I’m interested in sharing the truth as it is and as it will prove to be in a very short time. But God has said that He will do nothing but what He first reveals it to his people. He is not going to catch them by surprise. If they’re caught by surprise it was because they were not studying. They were not watching, they were not praying, they were not listening. It’s in the books, all the paradoxes are in there, it’s in the Bible, the keys to understanding the linking up of those paradoxes, it’s in the Bible and it’s in the Spirit of Prophecy we just haven’t seen it.

Now, we are more the victims of the genes and the chromosomes and what have you than perhaps we think we are. Maybe some of the things that we do are the result of our inherited traits more than we think. Sometimes we blame ourselves, yes, we should blame ourselves because the Spirit of Prophecy says, that every inherited and cultivated tendency to evil doing may be over-come. So there really is no excuse for it. But they could never have been over-come had it not been for the provision that Christ made for that over-coming, that changing of the nature the transforming of the heart through the agency of the Holy Spirit. And that agency of the Holy Spirit in this particular aspect of its work could not have been made available to us without the sacrifice of Christ. She tells us that.

Now when we think of the sacrifice of Christ we usually again limit ourselves to that episode in Gethsemane and the cross, don’t we? But that was only the outward demonstration of something that had taken place over a much longer span of time. However we won’t go into that tonight. The sacrifice of Christ involved long suffering and that’s why God declares Himself to be longsuffering. But the specific sacrifice which was made in the heavenly sanctuary and confirmed at Gethsemane and at the cross was the relinquishing of Christ’s eternal life which was the Holy Ghost, the soul of his life. So that it could be made available to repentant sinners. To recreate in them the image of the Son of God so that they could become sons of God, joint heirs with Christ. Does that mean anything to you? If Christ had not done it you could not have shared his heritage. He gave his life for you to accept according to the terms of his last will and testament. That was his greatest heritage, was his eternal life and He gave it. And according to the terms the Father was the one who was to execute that will and that’s where Jesus comes in as the intercessor. It is in the hands of the Father but the Father is honoring the terms of the will even though it is difficult for Him to do it. Why is it difficult? Because He loves his only begotten son and He had to give him to humanity. Not just give Him up but give Him to humanity. That’s what it says. The Son is given to humanity not just in the sense that He came to live in a human body and He is going to live in a human body forever that is not the only sense He gave his life to be shared. Jesus demonstrated that as clearly as He could do it. He couldn’t do it any more clearly that I can see. He’s told them specifically and He set up the communion service to demonstrate it. And He says do this in remembrance of Me till I come. I wonder how many of you see a deeper meaning than that?

(John) He is talking about his coming in the marriage service before the close of probation.


(The end of C/D #51 and the beginning of C/D #52)


(Wilfred) Right, right. When the marriage union of the Lamb with his saints has been consummated and the outpouring of the latter rain has been completed and the union is finished then the image of the former body and the blood of Christ is restore and the temple is restored if you please. Destroy this temple He says and in three days I will raise it up and I have explained to you how there are two meaning to that and in this other meaning each day is a thousand years and on the third day of those thousand years, and that’s now, the temple is to be restored. When that temple is restored the significance of the communion service is at an end just the same as the significance of the sacrificial service was at an end when Jesus died on the cross. Its purpose is terminated. You have remembered Him what?


(John) Till He comes.

(Wilfred) Till He comes. Now I’m not saying that you will not celebrate the communion service after probation closes. I am not saying that, I didn’t say that but I almost said it, didn’t I?

(John) Unintelligible

(Wilfred) All right now, I’m going to have time I think to bring to the surface now some of these paradoxes that we are gong to need to put together when we put the key in the door and turn the lock.

We talked about the shut door. In the shut door revelation they first thought in 1844 and the bridegroom went in, they didn’t understand that too well. But they had given the midnight cry and they had this parable of the ten virgins and when they went in the door was going to be shut and the ones who didn’t have oil in their lamps couldn’t get in. What was their interpretation? What were they preaching prior to 1844? That the door of mercy would be finished and Christ was going to come. Now they were disappointed, Christ didn’t come. What was their conclusion right after 1844? Well, at least the door was shut. Must be. The door must be shut, something went shut in 1844. So that door must be shut therefore no sinners could be saved the door of mercy to the world was finished. That’s what they believed.

Now that was an error in a certain sense but they didn’t understand it and shortly after that they came to the conclusion, well, it can’t be that way, the door of mercy must still be open. Surely they can still do work for sinners and they saw that the Spirit of God was working with sinners. So they kind of changed their minds, see, and then the most amazing thing happened, Sister White had a vision in December in which she saw that the Midnight Cry which they had thought at first was in the past and that the door was shut and no more mercy in which they had changed their minds and thought now that it must be in the future, they had given up the idea that it was in the past. By the time she had her first vision she says that most of the band had given that up including herself. She got this vision that the Midnight Cry was in the past it was shining from behind but the light went on down and lit the path ahead of them. Now her interpretation and the interpretation of some of the others of the vision was that the Midnight Cry was finished. It did take place back there but that there was something about it that was still future and they didn’t understand it, they knew that the door of mercy must still be open but here was an indication that it was still in the past, this Midnight Cry thing, that the door was shut. So they were still I think a little bit uncertain about it but Sister White says that when she gave the vision, the ones who she told it to believed it and accepted it even as she did.

Then she had a vision in February she saw the movement from the holy to the most holy and then a few years later in 1849 that was corroborated and she saw that the door to the holy apartment was shut and nobody could open it and the door to the most holy was opened and nobody could shut it. Now that became positive by 1849. In spite of the fact that they were still working for sinners that the door of mercy still seemed to be open she says, "But I still saw" and that is what she saw. Do you see the dilemma? Now I think last week I read you a statement by her husband that seems to contradict the one she gave, they seemed to be a little confused on just what happened in there. But the fact is they changed their minds they came to some wrong conclusions before the visions and after the visions there appeared to be contradictions and there seemed to be no resolution.

In another vision Sister White saw that as Jesus left the most holy of the sanctuary He paused a moment to place on the head of the scapegoat the sins that have been confessed by God’s people since He entered the most holy place, that would be 1844. Which would indicate that there was a special treatment of sins that were confessed since 1844. You got that? And yet she does not explain it and in another place she speaks of the sins of God’s people being placed on the head of the scapegoat, it doesn’t say anything about 1844. Have you got my point? I’m trying to show you that there is a problem here.

All right, let me make it clearer.  

When the priest went into the daily service he took the blood into the holy apartment and in doing so transferred the sins to that sanctuary, she doesn’t say whether holy apartment or most holy she just says sanctuary. And the sanctuary became polluted, on the Day of Atonement which came once a year the priest took the blood into the holy apartment and he shut the door and he opened the door to the most holy and went on in the most holy and sprinkled the blood on the mercy seat and I forget the details of where he put it. And that is not pertinent to what I’m discussing at the moment. What I am discussing is you and I were born since 1844. The high priest went into that most holy in 1844 and shut the door to the holy apartment and you have been confessing sins ever since you became an Adventist or a Christian and have been expecting that they were going in with the priest to the holy apartment when he isn’t even in the holy apartment he’s gone in to the most holy and the door to the tabernacle is closed, nobody can get in and the people are outside afflicting their souls all during that day and anybody who didn’t afflict his soul would be cut off from his people. Pleading and agonizing for cleansing. Do you get the parallel? That’s what we are supposed to be doing. Pleading and agonizing for what?

(John) Cleansing.

(Wilfred) Ok, what about the sins that you confessed? Does He forgive them do you think? How can you explain it? There is something wrong here. It just doesn’t add up.

(John) How do they get in?

(Wilfred) Now hang on to that until we get the key.

Then there is the delayed coming of Christ. If Christ had come when Sister White said He could have come I wouldn’t have been here and neither would some of you. Then what? You mean that Christ intended that we should have never been born? Have we got a problem here? But He delayed his coming, why, in mercy she says, because the people were not ready. And while He was being merciful you and I came along and we got in on it too, hopefully.

(A woman) Unintelligible

(Wilfred) Some of them. Some of them did but not all of them. Some of them went to their graves and they are going to come up in the special resurrection. Some of them went to their graves and will come up in the first resurrection. Some of them went to their graves and they are going to come up in the second resurrection. All right you got that problem? How long is this going to go on anyway? Do you think God has a time? Look, suppose we don’t get ready. Then the next generation is going to come along and there will be more people born, well, then let’s be kind to them and let’s not get ready so they have a chance but we’ve been preaching all these years now, get ready, get ready, get ready, after all if you don’t get ready you’re not going to get in. Who were you thinking about? Who were the Advent preachers thinking about when they said that? Come on. Self...? What’s God’s program?

(John) Self-renouncing love.

(Wilfred) How’s He going to bring that about?

(John) A revelation of his character and by declaring his people righteous so that their motive will be different.

(Wilfred) Right. We have gone over all that.

Well, let’s get some more. Revelation 20:4, somebody want to look it up and read it? All of these I think I have gone over before but I want them to be fresh in your mind and it is unfortunate we can’t sit here for another hour so I can give you the key while you still have it fresh in your mind but I just can’t do it. And I feel that there is no way I can do it until we go through these things and you have them clear in your mind.

(John) Why don’t you read it Brother Johnson so it gets on the tapes?

(Wilfred) Ok, 4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

I forgot to bring a statement with me but I’ll tell you what it is.

What does he see here? “The souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus.” What does that sound like?

(John) Martyrs.

(Wilfred) Martyrs. So where are they?

(John) They are dead.

(Wilfred) As the Bible speaks of it they are in the grave. Right? Very good. “And for the Word of God. And which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;” Now that statement loses its punch when you look at another statement by Sister White that says, that nobody has received the mark of the beast yet. That’s what she says. And they won’t until it becomes a test and they refuse it. I mean they refuse to accept the Sabbath test and receive the mark of the beast. Now that doesn’t happen until the final trial comes upon God’s people. And those who don’t receive the mark of the beast are going to go through either to their graves to be asleep until the resurrection or they are going to go through to translation. Right?

(John) The ones who don’t receive the mark of the beast are going to go through to translation.

(Wilfred) Well at that point of time, yes because the final test is going to be proved after probation closes.

(John) But it seems to be talking in this text about one particular group of people.

(Wilfred) I’ll have to correct that a little so you don’t misunderstand it. The decision will be made before the close of probation. The decision will be made before the close of probation. But when probation closes there’s no changing and those who don’t receive the mark of the beast will go on through. And they receive what?

(John) The seal of God.

(Wilfred) That’s what she says specifically, that’s what I wanted. I couldn’t quite think of what it was. That’s it, they receive the seal of God and then they go on to translation. Now tell me, it says here that they are dead, and you told me that they are in the graves. And if the statement applies to the time when they were living it has no significance because nobody receives the mark of the beast at that time, she says. And I am just waiting for someone to say, oh well, she has another statement that they do. Nobody has said anything yet. If you find one I would like you to have it because it would be important. What I am trying to say is, here John saw some people that were dead yet they were alive on the earth at the time that the mark of the beast became significant. That’s what I am trying to point out to you.

The next one. I think you will find this one in Revelation 11 Just before I read it I want to point out to you that the apostle Paul talks about the resurrection and he says that the resurrection is going to take place, when?

(John) At the last trump.

(Wilfred) At the last trump. Now when you talk about the last trump you are talking about a series of trumpets aren’t you? Aren’t you or are you?

(John) Yes.

(Another man) There must be a first one.

(Wilfred) There must be a first one at least. Now where do you find a series of trumpets?

(John) In the book of Revelation.

(Wilfred) Yes, The only set of trumpets that is prophetic in the sense of time, that would identify the time of something are the seven trumpets of Revelation that I could find. And he says the resurrection is due at the seventh trumpet when it sounds. Right? So the seventh one is given in Revelation 11 verse 15. Let’s have a look at what it says to see if we can identify it. 15 “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.” Does that give you a key?

(John) The Kingdom is restored.

(Wilfred) And when does that begin?

(John) Before the close of probation.

(Wilfred) When?

(John) At the marriage union.

(Wilfred) When does that start?

(John) 1844.

(Wilfred) Right you are. That’s when the seventh trumpet began to sound in 1844. Let’s read on. 16 “And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged,” Ahhhhh, we are coming to something here. It’s talking about the dead. Seventh trumpet, last trump, resurrection, the dead, the dead what? They are going to be?

(John) Judged.

(Wilfred) Judged. “And that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,” Who are being judged the wicked or the righteous?

(John) The righteous.

(Wilfred) Looks like the righteous doesn’t it? “Them that fear thy name small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.” Now how can He destroy them that destroy the earth until after He has judged all the righteous and gotten them out? What did he do in the day of Lot and Sodom? He got them first and that’s what He’s going to do again, well this is all given in our books if you want to study it. 19 “And the temple of God was opened in heaven,”

(John) That’s in 1844.

(Wilfred) How do you know?

(John) Because if you read on it’s...

(Wilfred) Right. It was opened of course when Christ descended first wasn’t it? The door to the holy was opened but now in 1844 the door of the holy was shut and the door of the most holy was opened. And I read to you last week I think from Early Writings where she saw that not until he went into the most holy, no, what was it? Ahhhhh, I can’t recall it. It had something to do with his moving from the holy to the most holy and that it occurred in 1844 and when it occurred the law and the commandments shone out, brought to light, see?

(A woman) That was in connection with that 1849 vision.

(Wilfred) Yes. I guess it was. Do you remember just what it said? “And there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail “ And so on.

(John) You missed the part that says, “And there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament:” So this must refer to the most holy place.

(Wilfred) Right, right. So we’ve identified the time of the seventh trumpet haven’t we?

(John) 1844.

(Wilfred) And we have identified something that is going to happen to the dead in Christ.

(Same woman) Judgment begins in 1844.

(Wilfred) Judgment begins and then He’s going to give rewards. Well, I guess we are not quite ready to go into the other aspects of that just yet.

Ok, now let’s dive into some others. Without looking these up I think you know them well enough. Do you remember what the apostle Paul said when he was describing the resurrection? He said the dead in Christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds so shall we ever be with the Lord. Did we quote that pretty well correct?

(John) Yes.

(Wilfred) Let me quote it another way. Then we which are dead shall rise first and those who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with us to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Did you get that?

(John) It doesn’t say......

(Wilfred) It’s getting too late to pick up that I guess. Is that what it says?

(John) One places Paul as among the group that will remain and the other, the last one that is not found in the Bible places him as one who is in the grave and will be resurrected.

(Wilfred) Now let me ask you, did Paul know which group he was going to be in?

(John) Yes.

(Wilfred) Or was he making a mistake?

(Same woman) Isn’t it Peter who said many of those things that he said they didn’t understand?

(Wilfred) You’ve missed my point I think.

(John) Paul wrote, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, what Paul wrote was correct whether he understood it or not...

(Wilfred) All right. So what you said is right. But I think you missed the point that I was trying to bring out and that is not your fault because I’m so poor at pumping these things. Now something else I wanted to point out here.

In Sister White’s first vision when she was with the hundred and forty four thousand and all the redeemed. They were visiting the city and then they came out of the city and Jesus was leading them and they were up to mount Zion and on the route they saw these never fading flowers and they saw the children picking these never fading flowers and with there little wings they could fly up the mountain or they could walk up, that’s what she saw. And as they got up to the door of the temple on Mount Zion, and the temple as you know is the dwelling place of God, the place where God meets with his people if you want to put it that way. Jesus turned, raised his voice and said; only the hundred and forty four thousand enter this place. Have you got that?  

Now turn over a little bit in her book in that same vision and you’ll find that she said the living saints, and that is still while they are on the earth here during those last movements, the living saints, one hundred and forty four thousand in number knew and understood the voice that spoke from heaven. The hundred and forty four thousand are the living saints on the earth who go through to translation. That is what I am trying to say.

(Same woman) Where does she say that?

(Wilfred) First vision in Early Writings. Did you follow me? Now who goes into the temple on Mount Zion?

(John) The hundred and forty four thousand.

(Wilfred) Those who live on the earth going through the seven last plagues and are translated. They go into the temple in Mount Zion. Why? Because they are the ones who have attained to the fullness of the stature of Christ and who demonstrate while the mediator has disappeared from his office. They demonstrate that they live without sin before a Holy God even as Jesus demonstrated in his day. Did you get the point? These are the ones that go into the temple on Mount Zion, these are the over-comers. So Jesus has to say to the apostle Paul, sorry Paul you made a mistake down there when you wrote that. You can’t come in here because you didn’t live at the right time. Got my point? As long as you’ve got my point that’s all that I want. I am not asking from you an explanation, I’m not expecting you to answer, I’m just wondering if you got the point?

Let’s try another one? After Jesus was resurrected and He was talking to his disciples before his ascension He called to Peter and He said, Peter do you love me? And Peter said, yes I do. And Peter had had that experience about denying his Lord and he had been converted, he had a change of heart. But he hadn’t been fully converted. So the Lord asked him again, Peter, do you love me? Yes I do. Feed my sheep. Peter, do you love me? You know I love you Lord. Peter’s impatience showing up here. Feed my lambs. And the reason I said Peter hadn’t been fully converted, do you know what it is? Because immediately, Peter started thinking about that fellow over there by the name of John who had leaned on the saviour’s bosom at the last supper. He sort of had a better place than Peter had. Do you get it? And he said, well what’s this fellow over here going to do? And the Lord said to Peter, not in these words but I’ll make it plain, it’s just not any of our business Peter. But what He really meant was, Peter you’re still thinking in terms of yourself and your own exaltation. When are you going to be converted Peter? What’s the matter with you anyway? How long is it going to take? He didn’t say that out loud. I mean He just said this, what is that to thee? And before He said that He made this statement, and before I make that statement let me refer to one that I read to you before, that all the sayings or statements of Jesus have a meaning beyond their unpretending surface. What you see on the surface has got another meaning. Every statement of Jesus, she said.

Now here’s one; He said if I will that he remain till I come what is that to thee? Did you ever wonder why He said that? Why didn’t He just say, Well, what difference does it make to you Peter what happens to John? You feed my sheep when you are converted. Why didn’t He just say that? Because he wanted to write a message to you. That’s why. There’s a deeper meaning in there that He wanted you to understand. And the reason He wrote it that way, and I have explained this before, the reason that the Bible is written in this peculiar fashion is the fact that Christ is dealing with the most intelligent mind in the universe outside of his own, the devil and He wants to beat the devil. And He’s got to use a little strategy. He can’t tell a lie, He’s got to tell the truth but the devil can tell lies but God doesn’t do that. But God puts his truth into the tapestry of the book and it’s woven in and you‘ve got to pick out a little piece here and a little piece there and all of a sudden you see the pieces come together and they make sense. Is that right or is that wrong?

(John) The Holy Spirit is...

(Wilfred) That’s right. And the Holy Spirit is the one that puts it together. Now all these years that statement has been in there and I wonder how many people have understood it? I just wonder. But the disciples jumped to a conclusion which wasn’t correct. But it may have been more correct than they thought it was. Do you know what the conclusion was that they jumped to?

(John) That John would tarry until He came.

(Wilfred) They believed that John was going to remain alive on the earth until Jesus came and they thought Jesus was coming pretty soon so that wasn’t stretching their imagination too far. But John has been in the grave a long, long time, he’s as dead as a door nail.

Did you know that Jesus said that John was going to prophesy again before many nations, kindreds, tongues and peoples? Did you know that? You’ll find it in Revelation. When Jesus came to John the Revelator on the isle of Patmos He told him to write everything that he heard and saw and John faithfully did it. He faithfully wrote everything he heard and saw. Then at this point where the Seven Thunders uttered their voices John says, I was about to write and the angel told me not to, the angel said don’t write John, stop because you are going to prophesy again before many nations, kindreds, tongues and peoples so you don’t write that. There was something that the Lord did not want John to reveal at that point of time and that John would again prophesy. Now, do you know what we say about that? We say sure because John’s book of Revelation has now been unfolded to us and he is now prophesying again through his book of Revelation.

(John) And Sister White verifies that.

(Wilfred) And Sister White verifies that but let me point out to you that John has still has not revealed what the Seven Thunders uttered. But Sister White said something about it, do you remember what it is John?

(John) Yes, she said it’s delineation, there is a real mystery in the Bible Commentary 7 vol. page 971 she says that it is a delineation of the events taken place under the first, second, and third angels message. Would you like me to read the statement?

(Wilfred) Yes, ok.

(John) “The mighty angel who instructed John was no less a personage than Jesus Christ. Setting His right foot on the sea, and His left upon the dry land, shows the part which He is acting in the closing scenes of the great controversy with Satan. This position denotes His supreme power and authority over the whole earth. The controversy had waxed stronger and more determined from age to age, and will continue to do so, to the concluding scenes when the masterly working of the powers of darkness shall reach their height. ... But the mighty angel demands attention. He cries with a loud voice. He is to show the power and authority of His voice to those who have united with Satan to oppose the truth.”

“After these Seven Thunders uttered their voices, the injunction comes to John as to Daniel in regard to the little book: “Seal up those things which the Seven Thunders uttered.” These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order.”

(Wilfred) Ok. You got that?

(John) She goes on to say, “The special light given to John which was expressed in the Seven Thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels' messages.” In other words it’s in our time since 1844.  

(Wilfred) Right. Now can I quickly finish because my tape is just about gone and there is something that I want to bring in to clinch this thought?

John was one of the apostles who was with Jesus, he leaned on his bosom at the last supper, he was very dear to the Lord, one of his closest human friends with whom He had intimate fellowship. And He told those disciples, He said, you can’t go with me now but you can later, that where I am there you may also be. Remember that? Now here is Jesus walking up to the temple on Mount Zion and here is John coming along with them and Jesus turns around and says, John, sorry you can’t come in because you didn’t live at the right time. Is that what you think He is going to say? Honestly now? Honestly? In every statement that Jesus makes including the one to John about the Seven Thunders there is a meaning we have not yet grasped. John the Revelator will be on the earth among the hundred and forty four thousand and so will the apostle Paul. And you say how can that possibly be?

(Another man) Is that the special resurrection?

(Wilfred) It is related to it but here is another problem and there are just dozens of problems here and that’s why this thing is so difficult and confusing and that’s why I’m appealing to you to be cautious, discreet, and patient. The special resurrection is not culminated until just before Jesus comes. But the hundred and forty four thousand are alive on the earth before that so there is another problem. I am going to give the key to this thing see, I promised I’m going to give it and I hope that you’ll promise me, you don’t have to do it out loud, that if you cannot grasp it, if it is too difficult for you to encompass that you will at least be courteous and kind enough to put it on a shelf and not to agitate it. Because it is a truth that will cause agitation when it is discussed. And I have already shown you that the sword of the Lord is coming upon his people, it’s coming but don’t go ahead of the angel that’s leading the people.

God will open up the door for the spreading of his message when it is due and according to his means, He’ll do that. It is not for man to decide, “Now I’m going to do this today or I’m not going to do this today.” John read you that statement of Jesus, He never made any plans for Himself and He was the Son of God. And when it comes to your relationship to God and the proclamation of his closing message to God’s people to prepare them to go through the final conflict. Don’t be indiscreet, if you do she says you’ll have to retrace every step and it will be a bitter experience. I’m not too sure but what there may not be another meaning in that book that John ate there. That was so sweet to his mouth but bitter to his stomach, there may be some meaning in that. You say Johnson why are you telling us these things? I’m telling them to you because there is something going to happen in the midst of God’s people within a very short time that will throw you off your feet if you don’t understand it. And the devil is counterfeiting it all over the place. And many of God’s people are going to say it’s just another one of the devil’s counterfeits and you are going to have to be mighty sure of yourself before you will be committed to trusting God. You are facing the climax of the great controversy, that’s what you are facing, I say "You" but I’m included. But I want to make it pointed. It will deceive if it were possible the very elect, the devil will. And how will he do it? With his delusions, deceptions, and with his counterfeits, that’s how he’ll do it.

Can you be kind enough to just bear with me until I get a chance to bring all this to you so that you can see at least that I’m aiming at something tangible rather than leaving you in mid air like I’m doing tonight? Don’t think that I’m, ahhhhhhh, how should I put it? You may think that I’m moving out on a limb here or something. I’m moving out onto a truth that is very, very, involved. It ties in with many different conundrums in the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy and it will be difficult to see it click and if you don’t see it click it’s going to bother you, it’ll bother you. But if you make up your mind to just leave it on the shelf until such time as it makes sense to you then it shouldn’t. And I know people who have had to do that for several years, they had to do it for several years and finally it clicked and they saw it. It doesn’t mean that if you don’t see it right away that you don’t have the Spirit of God and you’re a heretic or you’re a something else and that you are not going to make it. Nor does it mean that I’m a heretic and you are the one that’s right and you don’t see it because I’m all wrong anyway and it doesn’t mean that either. It simply means that we do not all have the same kind of minds; we do not all think the same. I can’t forget the time I walked up the hall in the basement of the church passed the junior or one of the lower primary rooms and some youngster came out to me with a little card you know with that picture of Christ in the melting snow and I had never seen it before and she held it up in front of me and she says, Can you see it? Can you see it? And I said see what? Christ, can you see Christ there? No I just see a bunch of black and white blotches, that’s all I could see. She said, but can’t you see it? And I thought she was just making fun of me and I thought that for quite a while because other people starting showing this picture and they put it up in the prayer meeting room. And it took me several weeks before I saw that and I think I told some of you once the situation under which that happened which was rather odd. But it is like seeing the truth of God, you cannot see it until the Spirit comes and clicks it in your mind, that’s all there is to it. And you cannot order the Spirit around. I can’t show it to you, I can’t do it but I can try to give you all the pieces that belong to it, which I’m doing. I’m trying to bring all the pieces in that belong to this puzzle. And then I’m going to give you the key that answers the puzzle. And if you see it, fine, if you don’t see it don’t worry about it but please don’t agitate it until you’re ready for trouble.

(Much laughter)

You say why am I agitating it? I am not agitating it I have shared this with very, very few people, very few. Some of them are down in the general conference in charge of research, some of them are conference ministers, some of them are my personal friends that I can trust and a few of them are people I guess I can’t trust and I’ve learned the hard way. And why am I doing it now? Because my days on this earth are numbered and I have an obligation to God. I promised Him that I would do it and that was the hardest decision I have ever had to make. The hardest decision I have ever had to make was when I made my first move to fulfill that commitment and I’m simply continuing in that commitment as God gives me the direction. And that’s why I’m doing it and I know full well what the results will be, I’m fully aware of it, I’m not going in blind. And I’m warning you so that you’ll use a little judgment. There are some things that you just don’t share with everybody until you recognize that it's time to do it.

Do you realize that the devil is counterfeiting the resurrection today? Are you aware that Sister White says that he is going to counterfeit the resurrection of the apostles? And do you realize that if the apostles are going to be among the hundred and forty four thousand and go with Jesus into the temple on Mount Zion where He promised them that they could go? That they have to be here among the hundred and forty four thousand, do you realize that? Otherwise the statements are wrong, the Bible is not true, and the Spirit of Prophecy is not true.  You can’t solve the problem, you’re up against a brick wall. How is God going to do it? How is God going to do it? Well, He’s going to do it. He promised those disciples they were going to be with Him where He went. He told John he was going to prophesy again. The apostle Paul saw that he was among those who are living. Sister White said that she saw that she would be what the angel told her that she would be with the hundred and forty four thousand, How’s He going to do it?

(John) Daniel would stand in his lot.

(Wilfred) Daniel would stand in his lot. Well, just keep your mind open, invite the Spirit of God to hang on to you and study the books and ultimately you’ll see how God’s going to do it.

I’m going to talk about it further next week. But I haven’t any more time to do it tonight, at least I don’t want to take any more time I have already gone over my tape which poses a problem now because it goes on to another tape and it will get irregular. But I’ll go on next week from where I left off. And if you’ve got part of it on another tape just go on from there and I’ll try to keep it within the two hours next week.

There are other problems still involved here that I haven’t dealt with yet. And then I’m going to show you the key. And I’m going to show you where the Bible gives us the key and I hope that you’ll see the solution. And it will be a surprise as it was to me. And it will be a difficult surprise because there are minds that are so rigid that they will never move out to accept the thought. And these people if they are faithful and true to God and do not lose their faith in God through the time of trouble that he will permit them to go through He’ll accept them and put them to sleep until the time of the indignation is passed. But those who understand and commit themselves to God and say, Lord I am willing to go with you, they will go through and God is waiting for those people. He’s waiting for those people. He is anxiously waiting with yearning desire for the manifestation of Himself in his people and when that character shall be perfectly reproduced then He will come to claim them as his own. But He is not going to put them through that experience until they have been forewarned and have had a chance to prepare to meet Him and that is what we are doing. And you need to understand this key in order for you to go through and stick it out.

(A woman in the audience) ...can you give us a Bible text to read?

(Wilfred) You mean for tonight?

(Same woman) Unintelligible

(Wilfred) No, I can’t do that. I’ll have to deal with it. It’s too difficult I simply have to deal with it as best as I’m able. I’ll do my level best to clarify it and beyond that I can’t go, it will be up to the Spirit of God to do it. I am not the only one who has seen this, there was an official from eastern U.S.A who visited me once and told me that this was not the first time they had encountered this particular thing because the problems are there and there is a solution and somebody is bound to see some of it. And somebody has and the devil is one of them and he sure is doing everything he can to prepare your minds to reject it.

(Same woman) I have another question?

(Wilfred) Yes.

(Same woman) You said that your days were certainly numbered; you don’t mean...you say that you are normally in good health...

(Wilfred) Does it make any difference?

(Same woman) Well, I care.

(Wilfred) I have a job to do and when it’s done I have no excuse for being around I guess. When I get it done I’m working at it to the best of my ability.

She says that the work will be finished under the most difficult circumstances and believe you me I know what that means. It’s almost impossible sometimes to carry on, just about impossible. Like tonight, I did not have my material organized, I could have organized it very neatly it would have taken me many hours to do it but there was no way I could get the time to do it. There too many worldly things that are more important that have to be done or else you don’t love them any more and that type of thing. Including you folks you would be disappointed with me for instance if I didn’t get that tape for you. And I guess some of you may be. You have no idea of what type of a situation I’m working against with no reflection on anybody. The devil is behind the whole business and I know that. And it’s not an easy thing for me to come here and deal with this subject like this and that’s why I’m not doing as good a job as should be done but I’m doing the best I can under the circumstances. It’s not easy to deal with some of these subjects as thoroughly as they ought to be dealt with when it is impossible to get them adequately put together. There are text and passages that I should have had to read right along with everything I have been saying right off the bat but I just have not been able to collect them. In fact I can’t remember all these passages just off hand I just don’t have that kind of a mind. I am dependent on God to bring these things to me when I need them. Many times because I haven’t had an opportunity to get them. I can sit at home and plan them out and write up the outline or the whole story but I can’t do it unless I have the opportunity and that means to be completely isolated. I would have to be completed isolated from interferences. Which you can’t do in this world today, I mean I have responsibilities, family and friends. I’m carrying them out as best I can under the circumstances and sometimes it’s a toss-up as to what do I do now? Do I do the Lord’s bidding or do I do his other bidding which is to love your neighbor as yourself, which comes first? Nine times out of ten I have done the thing that considers by neighbor. I am glad that I serve that kind of a God. He does not spank me because I didn’t do what He wanted me to do. I don’t know whether you understand what I’m saying or not.

(Another man) According to what you are saying about this passage in the Bible Moses and Elijah will come back to this earth too before the end.

(Wilfred) I’ve never seen were it says Moses will come back but it does say that Elijah will.

(Same man)  ...couldn’t that mean in spirit...?

(Wilfred) Well you can speculate, it definitely is in spirit because Jesus explained that. He explained that John the Baptist came in the Spirit and power of Elijah.

(Same man) ...usually there is a counter part to everything that exists and that there are evil spirits which it just stands to reason that there should be good spirits to counteract the evil spirits.  

(John) I think a graphic Bible text on this subject is Job, he said, The worms after destroy this body yet in the latter day I shall stand upon the earth and in my flesh shall see God and not another.

(Wilfred) Well of course this applies to the resurrection.

(Same man) These people became one with Christ and when they became one with Him their mind and spirit became his and in that they are still alive.

(Wilfred) I was going to deal with that subject in the spirit and in the power one time I don’t think I ever got to it. There are some things in there that I could I suppose talk about. Jesus came in the spirit and power of Christ but He was Christ. John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elias and Jesus said he was Elias but John said he wasn’t so obliviously John didn’t know that he was if he was. And neither did Jesus when He was a little boy know that He was Christ but sooner or later He found out. Now the question as to whether the literal Elijah returned that’s another thing. I don’t feel prepared to deal with that until we deal with this other subject if we deal with it at all. But it will certainly reveal itself in short order if it is true. We don’t have to worry about it. Sister White applied the statement also to her own experience. She considered herself to be one who would come in the spirit and power of Elijah and she complained that they were not accepting the message just like the Jews back in the old days. You find that in Testimonies to Ministers and also in 1st Selected Messages. But she does make the statement that somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah and when he appears men may say, you are too earnest you do not interpret the scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how the teach your message. I quoted that word for word. And she said that in connection with, the Jews tried to stop the proclamation of the message. But prophecy must be fulfilled and then she goes on to say. Behold I send you Elijah then she says somebody is to come just like that. But after we complete this other subject here I think you will be better equipped to understand that prophecy than you are at the present moment.  

(Same woman) With spiritualism being as strong as it is there will be some kind of a test in order for a person to recognize whether Paul is being Paul.

(Wilfred) Yep.

(Another man) She gives all the tests of a true prophet. ...she gives the identification...

(Wilfred) Well the Bible gives us the Key and I’m going to give that to you. And you may not accept it as such that’s your privilege, I’m not here to say what you should believe or what you shouldn’t believe and your impression of me and what I’m trying to do may change when I give it to you, that’s your privilege. But I would like to make this appeal to you, check the message that we’ve been talking about. We’ve got hours and hours of tapes, there must be at least a hundred to two hundred hours of tape recorded of things that we have discussed. Check it and if you find anything in there that is not in accordance with the scriptures I’ll be the first one to renounce it if you show it to me. I can’t take a better attitude than that. But you’ve got to be able to show it to me and answer the questions.

(Same woman) Well Satan wouldn’t raise anyone up to support the Sabbath.

(Wilfred) He might.

(John) He has right now, look at this fellow now down in California.

(Another man) Ted Armstrong.

(John) I mean the track of truth and error lie close together the counterfeit so resembles the true that it’s almost impossible to see the difference. When Satan comes he comes quoting scripture. He’ll quote the same gracious words that the Saviour used when He was here upon the earth. He will raise his hands in blessing upon the people.

(Wilfred) And He will counterfeit everything God has done, is doing, and is about to do.

(John) Brother Johnson there is a statement that says that just before God is about to do something he counterfeits it.

(Wilfred) Right. And there is nothing... Well we’ll talk about it next week.

It’s very obvious once you see it, the whole thing comes together and it solves present dilemmas but it raises new ones and if it didn’t do that God’s truth would be static it would come to a dead end street. But because it brings out new Orions it is to be explored and you go on from there and pretty soon you’ll find more dilemmas and then you get a key that fits those together. And lo and behold another dilemma shows up and so on. It just keeps unfolding and unfolding.

(Another man) That’s good because intelligent minds would get tired and give up.

(Wilfred) Right. That’s exactly right. God’s truth never comes to an end.

(Same man) I got sick before over the same thing over and over for years that’s one reason you get kind of... well you know what I mean...

(Wilfred) Right. She says that the tame dull sermonizing will cease.

Well am sorry if I have tired some of you out tonight. If any of you want to see this article you are welcome to see it.


(The conclusion of this two C/D series on Contradictions and Problems)

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