Contradictions and Problems
May 12th, 1976
Transcribed from C/Ds #51 &
October 26, 2013 thru November 4,
Now I have just a few miscellaneous items in here to start
out with tonight. I bumped into some of these things every once in a
while and I would like to share them with you. There is one in Ezekiel
22:18 – 20. We have been talking about in the past concerning the sword
of the Lord coming upon his people, how that He is going to bring it
upon his people and that this will be a portion of the great and
dreadful day that the Bible speaks of which will expand of course and
into the total world picture. But God’s people will have a difficult
experience which is designed to bring them to perfection. So, Ezekiel
is talking about it here in chapter 22 starting with verse 18. “Son
of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass,
and tin, and iron, and lead in the midst of the furnace, they are even
the dross of silver.” Do you recall that over in the ninth chapter
he talks about the abominations when the sealing takes place? There are
problems within God’s church that the Bible speaks of as abominations.
And here He says that the house of Israel is to me become dross. Now I am
not down grading the denomination in pointing this out. I am trying to
point out the fact that God’s people are not what they are supposed to
be and that’s the reason we are still here and God is about do
something about it and I would like to see that you are prepared that
when it comes it won’t throw you off your feet. That’s the motive, do you
Now here He is talking about it again, 19 “Therefore thus saith
the Lord God; because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will
gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.” Now what’s Jerusalem
(John) The church.
(Wilfred) He’s going to gather them into where?
(Many voices at once) Into the church.
(Wilfred) And where was it that these abominations were taking place
back in Ezekiel 9?
(Several voices again) In the church.
(Wilfred) In the midst of Jerusalem. 20 “As they gather silver and
brass and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to
blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger
and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you,” What’s
He going to do?
(John) Melt them.
(Wilfred) Melt them. Put you in that furnace and He is going to leave
you there until you melt. That’s what it says. Do you think it’s a God
of love when He talks about his fury, and He’s going to pour his fury
upon his people, do you think it is a God of love? Yes it is because if
He didn’t do it the perfection of his people would not be accomplished
and He would have to come and smite the earth with a curse. Which would
you rather have? 21 “Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the
fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. 22 As
silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in
the midst thereof;” Now here’s the conclusion, you got it there? “And ye shall know that I the Lord have poured out my fury upon
you.” Who’s doing it?
(A man in the audience) The devil.
(Wilfred) Not the devil. Not the Devil. The Lord. What kind of a
furnace, well, let me but it this way. What devise does God use to do
this with? What constitutes his furnace?
(Many voices again) His church. They are trials. (And other opinions)
(Wilfred) Well they are all good answers. We gave you a pamphlet last
date to look through. Did you look through it?
(John) It’s his sword.
(Wilfred) It’s his sword. I should read you that text I think it’s in
Isaiah. He is going to
come and fight them with the sword of his mouth,
it says. That’s how He comes. Now what is the sword?
(A man) His Word.
(Wilfred) His Word. And how is the Word going to cause this problem?
(John) It’s sharpened and furbished.
(Wilfred) Yes, and what does it mean?
(John) It means we are going to be called fanatics and off beats and...
(Wilfred) How come?
(John) Because we don’t see things in the same way that our brethren
have seen them in the past and have seen them for years and years even
(Wilfred) How come we are going to see them differently?
(Another man) Because the sword is sharpened and furbished.
(Wilfred) The sword is sharpened and furbished, what does that mend?
(Same man) Expanding truth.
(Wilfred) Right, expanding truth. Did you read this? I shouldn’t ask
you to put your hands up to see how many did but I wanted to ask if there were
any questions that arose in the mind as a result of reading it? Are
there any things that puzzled you, any problems? Because I don’t think
that I’ll go through this with you, I could but I don’t think I will.
I’ve got other things I want to move into. But there are quotations in
here that should give you a background so that you will be able to
understand what we are talking about as we move on. Are there any
questions? Any comments? Anything you want to bring up? Any doubts?
Now here is another one then that I want to share with you. Hosea 2:19
& 20. Someone was asking me about the marriage of the Lamb. Now
there is more to it than what is given in these two verses but this is
just something that throws a bit of light on it. We talked about Christ
going into the most holy apartment to the wedding. Do you remember?
What wedding? Who’s He gong to be married to? Well, his Kingdom it
says. Married to his Kingdom. What is his Kingdom?
(John) His people in his church.
(Wilfred) There are two things
that constitute the Kingdom: the
territory and the people who are in the territory. We call it the
Kingdom of grace and the Kingdom of Glory. The Kingdom of Grace is the
Kingdom within the heart and He rules his people by planting the law in
their hearts and they respond out of love to Him, in fact their mind,
and will, and heart are so in tune with his that they simple respond to
their own inclinations. And as they do so they are responding to his
will. That’s the Kingdom of grace. The Kingdom of Glory is the Kingdom
with all its glory. I mean the literal physical Kingdom. And Sister
White tells us and I think I have those statements to read here. Sister
White tells us that He does not receive his physical Kingdom until the
second coming. He receives his spiritual Kingdom by the close of
probation, that’s when the marriage is consummated. So there are two
phases to the marriage, do you understand? Two interpretations, two
meanings, one folds and unfolds from the other. Christ comes to the
temple in 1844. William Miller preached this but he misunderstood it.
Christ came to his temple, the most holy apartment of the temple, there
to cleanse the temple, the sanctuary, his people, and to consummate the
marriage and that will be completed by the end of probation. So He
receives his Kingdom by the end of probation and I read you that
statement in Early Writings,
I could read it to you again but it’s
here on page 280. Then she also says that He does not receive his
Kingdom until the second coming. So there’s another one of these
contradictions again, do you understand? And until you get the idea of
these two comings of Christ, the secret coming which involves his
coming to his temple for the marriage and that is tied in with the
latter rain. And the literal coming, at the literal coming He receives
Well now we are back in here to the most holy apartment where this
wedding takes place, and here’s what He says about it; 19 “And I
will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in
righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:” Have you
ever heard of an engagement like that? Yes, parts of it but not other
parts, right? This is the Lord’s commitment to his people; and I will
betroth thee unto me in righteousness, in judgment, in lovingkindness,
and in mercies, and in faithfulness and here’s the result. “And
thou shalt know the Lord.” Right back to that same principle
that if you know God you’re going to love Him. If you love Him you are
going to keep his commandments and that is the essence of the plan of
salvation. To know God is life eternal.
Well, I won’t spend any more time on that one.
Now I have another one here. Some quotations with reference to the
resurrection. I thought I’d squeeze those in here. We talked a little
bit about it and I think it would be nice to talk a little more. And
incidentally I’m building up to one of the most difficult truths that I
will be presenting to you. Whether I get to it tonight I am not sure,
it will be tonight probably or next week.
Great Controversy 644, “All come forth from their graves the
stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen
throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature but little
below the Son of God.” How tall is he?
(Same man) Shorter than Jesus.
(Wilfred) And how tall is Adam.
(Another man) About fourteen feet.
(Wilfred) In another statement she
says more than twice the height of
men today. So that would be somewhat over twelve anyway. So then the
Son of God being a little higher than Adam would probably be somewhere
around fifteen feet or what have you. That’s just an estimate. “He
presents a marked contrast to the people of the later generations; in
this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race. But all
arise with the freshness and vigor of eternal youth. In the beginning,
man was created in the likeness of God, not only in character, but in
form and feature. All blemishes and deformities are left in the grave.”
Good, maybe that crooked ear will be straightened out. That
loped-sided nose and that eye that isn’t as big as the other one and so
on. And that limb that’s missing or a kidney or something else.
Desire of Ages 804, “The resurrection of Jesus was a type
final resurrection of all who sleep in Him. As Jesus arose from the
dead, so those who sleep in Him are to rise again.” I would like
to point out to you however that that type, the way we see it at the
present moment is not complete because Jesus was raised into the same
body that went into the tomb. But with people who have died
subsequently and previously with but few exceptions have gone to the
tomb and their bodies have degenerated and deteriorated and there is
nothing left. Some of them were eaten by sharks in the ocean some were
blown to bits in an explosion and the Bible says that the graves are
open and the dead come forth, you know, the idea is that they are
reformed down below the ground six feet some place where they were
buried and then the ground opens up so they can come out. This cannot
be a complete picture of the resurrection it just cannot be because
there are many people who are not in graves. Some are cremated. So
you’ll have to take these things with a grain of salt. You’ll have to
understand that there is a symbolism in here that is not complete. Just
because it says that Jesus’ resurrection was a type of those who sleep
in him does not mean that everybody is going to come through in that
particular fashion, necessarily. But if it is a complete type we’ve got
a problem. Not an insurmountable problem but a problem. I‘d better
leave it at that.
OK, it’s interesting to note that Jesus came forth then from the tomb in
the same stature that He went in, right? How big was he?
(Same man) Unintelligible
(Wilfred) The same size as they were back there. I don’t know whether
He was a tall person or a short person or in between. Maybe Mrs. White
says something about it I can’t recall having read it. Does anybody
(Many voices) unintelligible
(John) He was slightly taller than the average person.
(Still many voices) unintelligible
(Wilfred) But the point is He was shorter than when Adam comes up in
the resurrection. That is the point. So what has happened to Jesus? He
has grown. What does it say happens to the saints in Isaiah? We are
going to grow up like calves in the stall.
3rd Spiritual Gifts page 34 she says that Adam was more than
tall as men now, so he would be at least thirteen feet maybe better.
Some people have even estimated fifteen. But anyway he would be between
13 and 15 feet tall I would think.
Desire of Ages 804. “We shall know our friends, even as the
disciples knew Jesus.” After his resurrection. But did you notice
that some of them didn’t know Him at first. The Bible says their eyes
were “holden”. In other words they couldn’t see straight. But it was an
interference with the sight mechanism. However they were permitted to
see Jesus and to recognize Him, Mary didn’t recognize Him at first
either, did she? Maybe she didn’t look up.
(Same man) She thought He was the gardener.
(Wilfred) She thought He was the gardener. So I’m suspicious that we
won’t be exactly like we are now. We can’t be if the blemishes are
removed there will be some differences; we’ll have to get use to each
other again. But she does say something about the character and
personality being the same I think I came across that. “They may
have been deformed, diseased, or disfigured, in this mortal life, and
they rise in perfect health and symmetry;” Ahhh, there it is that
crooked ear is going to be straight. “Yet in their glorified body
their identity will be preserved.
6 Bible Commentary page 1093, “Our personal identity is
in the resurrection, though not the same particles of matter or
material substance as went into the grave.” All right now, there’s
a thought. So the fellow that was blown to bits can be recreated out of
other material than was actually in his body at that point. Well that’s
no particular problem because after all, practically every particle in
my body now is different from what it was ten years ago it has been
completely replaced. But I am not sure about the bones and certainly
the teeth aren’t totally replaced if at all. But other parts of the
body are. Finger nails, they replace in about six months it takes about
six months for the cells that are being formed down there in the
generating factory to get out to the tip and you snip them off. I’ve
lost that one twice by a stupid accident letting a piece of furniture
drop on it, stuff like that. It comes off then about six months later
it’s grown out again. It’s not as good as the original one it’s got
some deformity in it. It’s got some streaks down the middle and at the
tip where it comes out the nail isn’t very good and it keeps chipping
off in there. So I have to keep it trimmed a little extra. That’s what
you get for being careless. Anyway the Lord is going to bring substances
together, furthermore we are not going to have the same chemistry in
the body as we have now, it’s going to be different, it’s going to be a
glorified body. And precisely what material substance the Lord needs to
make that Glorified body I don’t know but He can start with what we’ve
got and change it because there are going to be a hundred and forty
four thousand people go through that experience. He can also recreate a
body and change it and just how He’s going to do that I am not
“The wondrous works of God are a mystery to man. The spirit, the
character of man, is returned to God,” Did you get that? She
identifies the spirit with the character here so she’s using the word
spirit in a rather new sense and probably the word character too
although I think she means by character the personality.
(John) The record of a person.
(Wilfred) The personality, yes it would constitute a record. “It is
returned to God there to be preserved.” She says. “In the
resurrection every man will have his own character.” In the
resurrection he will have his own character. You’re not going to come
up with someone else’s character. You come up with your own.
I am going to go ahead of myself just a bit because I want you to get
this point and I may forget it when I come to that stage.
When Jesus was born in Bethlehem and grew up as a boy in Nazareth who
was He? He was somebody who had already existed, right? Whose character
did He have? He had his own character. That’s the thing that
constituted Him as being Christ, primarily. He brought with Him from
heaven his character, his individual personality. He was Christ the Son
of God, nobody else. And that’s the way we’re going to come forth.
We’re going to come forth as the person that we were. But the body
isn’t the thing that really counts. Jesus came forth in a different
body than the one He had before, right? When He was born? That is that
He came here in a different body. Now you’re going to say, now brother
Johnson that’s the incarnation that’s not the resurrection. Ahhhhh,
just hold it a minute. When Jesus was in the cradle in Bethlehem in
that manger was there a Christ in heaven?
(Wilfred) Then where was his mind and consciousness and personality and
all the rest of it?
(John) It was wrapped up in that little baby in the cradle.
(Wilfred) Before He was born was He conscience? Eight months before He
was born was He conscience? Was He in heaven? Then he was asleep,
right? What I want you to understand is that Christ actually died the
death of sleep before He came to this world, that’s what I am trying to
point out. And on the cross He died the second death which is the death
of the sinner from which there’s no hope of a resurrection. But the
first death is the death of sleep. Is that right? And from sleep you
wake up, don’t you? Did Christ wake up? Yes, He did. He came to. He
grew up. And at some point along the route He realized who He was.
(John) At the age of twelve.
(Wilfred) We can’t be too specific here. I think He had knowledge of
his identity before that but at the age of twelve when He came to the
temple and saw the sacrifice at that point He was impressed with the
sense of his mission and the fact that He personally was that Lamb.
(John) That was at twelve.
(Wilfred) That was at twelve. Now whether He had a memory of this,
whether this was a little snatch of memory coming back to Him that He
could remember something that He had thought of when He was in heaven
before, I can’t identify that. Nor can I find anyplace in all of the
gospels or in the Bible for that matter where it positively says that
Jesus at some point in time had a memory of his former existence. I
haven’t found it. I have been looking. I am of the opinion that there
were times when He had flashes of memory but I doubt if there was any
time when He had a full revelation of his former existence as such. But
I don’t know, I have no proof, can’t find it, I am just giving you my
own opinion on that point. There are reasons for thinking that He did
not have memory of his former existence. But it’s difficult for me to
think that He did not have snatches like we have. Right? We get a
little snatch of something that happened fifteen years ago, but we
don’t remember everything about it just a little bit about it. Then you
say, Why do you say that Brother Johnson? How come, don’t you think
that He could remember everything that ever happened in all past
history? Physically no, I don’t think He could because twelve billion
brain cells could not be adequate to compose that type of computer
memory. But that He could tap into it. Through revelation yes He could
have had it. But Sister White points out that he used in his own behalf
no power that is not freely available to us. And I would think that if
He had a full-blown consciousness of everything that has ever happened
to his future existence that He would have an advantage. We’re not
going to get that. She says that anything that He had or used in his
own behalf is available to us. And there is no indication anyplace
that we are going to get that. Well we are dealing with something that
is obscure here.
(John) There are two statements to verity what you are saying. It says,
so utterly was Christ emptied of self that He made no plans for
himself. He excepted God’s plans for him and day by day the Father
unfolded his plans. So He didn’t know what they were in advance. And
then it goes on to say, so we should depend upon God that our lives may
be the simple out-working of his will. Again the examples. And that
statement when He was twelve it says, Day by day He saw their meaning
more clearly. This was the impressive rites of the paschal service.
Every act seemed to be bound up with his own life. New impulses were
awakening within Him, silent and absorbed He seemed to be studying out
the great problem, the mystery of his mission was opening to the
(Wilfred) Ok. Now, I told you before I am leading up to something. So
hang on to these points. Jesus did reach the point where He could say
“Before Abraham was I am”. Now whether that was based just on his
conviction of his mission without any knowledge of or without any
conscience memory of his former existence I cannot positively say. And
if you come across anything that has any bearing on that subject I
would really appreciate you sharing it with us.
(Another woman) Unintelligible
My personal opinion is that in his day-by-day walk in this life on this
earth He was not conscience of his former existence directly only as it
was revealed to Him by inspiration, which I think He had flashes of it.
But I do not believe He had full direct access to his former mind. Now,
I’d better state that in a different way, He had the power to tap in
but He had voluntarily excluded himself from it. It is my thinking that
when He left heaven to take upon himself humanity, in doing that He
divested himself of the former memory. He went to sleep in the same
sense that you and I go to sleep at night and when we wake up in the
morning we wake up, BUT we wake up to our memory of our former days of
existence, we can remember back to say five or six years of age maybe
a little further some things not very much. The further back you go the
less you know, you just remember very isolated incidents. You can
remember quite a bit of what happened yesterday. In no way could you
sit down and write a complete diary of what went on in your life
yesterday. Can you? I think you would get bogged down.
(Another man) He understood his position and relationship with the
(Wilfred) Yes He did, his knowledge and understanding were complete so
far as his personality and his position and everything else was
(A woman) He asked to be shown the glory...
(Wilfred) Did He for Himself?
(A woman) He said show me the glory...
(Wilfred) It must be a different translation than the one I’ve got.
(John) It was for the disciples.
(Wilfred) I think in the
King James Version it says, Glorify thou me
with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Now to
glorify Him, what does that mean? It would mean to reveal his glory I
would think. Which is what?
(Same woman) Unintelligible
(Wilfred) And what was He talking about in that prayer? You don’t
remember? For his disciples to love another as his Father loved Him and
He loved the Father and that’s his glory, his character of love,
(Same woman) ...that memory. Would He have it now?
(Wilfred) Maybe we’ll just leave that until we get a little further on.
What does it mean to lose your memory? To be asleep? It’s a death
isn’t? I mean, for all practical purposes you are dead to your past if
you have lost your memory. If your memory is suddenly cut off right
now, you are still alive here in terms of the present and you could see
and hear and all the rest of it. Now this experience has happened to a
number of people they have suffered from what is known as amnesia. And
I am suspicious that most of these cases are a direct interference of
evil spirits. And there is certainly good evidence for that. I would
not say all of them, some people for instance have an accident, they
get a bang on the head and suddenly they lose their memory. Well,
that’s different there is damage to the brain. But other types of
amnesia caused by emotional stress and so on are probably related to
the devils activities. And the memory completely disappears and the
individual continues to function and operate but can’t remember a thing
that had ever happened past a certain point. They don’t know who they
are and yet the habits they have formed, the habitual structure which
is a form of memory but not conscience, remains intact. They can still
walk they can talk and they can perform and can eat and so on.
It is possible for a person to be alive like Jesus was and be somebody
who has lived but not remember that particular thing. Do you see what I
mean? This was the experience of Jesus when He was a boy in Nazareth He
was living and He had a limited memory back to...
(John) To four or five or so.
(Wilfred) Yes. And yet He was a person who lived from eternity. Now I
would like you to understand that I think it is an important point.
Because Jesus went to sleep and I’ve explained before that in the
heavenly sanctuary which is the real thing of which the earthly
sanctuary was a symbol. The lamb was slain in the outer court as a
sacrifice, right? The blood was shed and the blood represents the life.
Now Christ was the true sacrifice nobody slew Him as such, He
volunteered to lay down his life. Well He had to do that before He
could be a little seed in Mary’s womb. Can’t you see that? Otherwise He
couldn’t become that human Christ. So He went to sleep voluntarily, the
sacrifice that we talk about in the sanctuary service took place in the
heavenly sanctuary before He ever came to this world. That was as the
Lamb then after his experience in this world and his resurrection He
went to heaven and where did He go? Back to that sanctuary but not now
as the sacrifice all over again, no he was offered once for the sins of
the world. Now He went in says Paul as the high priest, the mediator,
that’s what the Bible says. You see, He was both sacrifice and
mediator. So there are two phases. And in the Old Testament He was the
sacrifice. In the New Testament He is the mediator. Under the Old
Covenant, sacrifice, that’s how your sins are forgiven, they are
covered by his sacrifice. In the New Testament the purpose of the
mediation of Christ is to bring about the perfection of his people.
That’s the purpose of it. And it takes place through the transference
of your sins to the first apartment of the sanctuary. And the true
sanctuary is what? Christ. And the second part of that which takes
place on the Day of Atonement is the cleansing of the sanctuary and
that started in 1844. When that outer door was shut and the inner door
was opened and that’s the work that has been going on since 1844. The
investigative judgment and the cleansing of the sanctuary and when it
is completed then Christ has preformed the functions of which the
sacrificial service in the Old Testament typified. He has completed it
He has gone the whole round and He lays down his robes and the Kingdom
Now we have some things to pick up in connection with this sacrifice
and in connection with this incarnation of Christ and His crucifixion
and his resurrection and so on. We’ll try to sort these out as we go
Here is Great Controversy, pages 322, 323. “Not until the
personal advent of Christ can His people receive the kingdom.” Do
you remember what I said to you at the beginning tonight? “Not
until the personal advent of Christ can His people receive the kingdom.”
Now let me read this other one.
This is "The Third Message Closed", page 280 in Early Writings. She has
just finished talking about the close of probation when the decree went
forth of the declaration that He that is unjust, let him be unjust
still: and so on.
“Every case had been decided for life or death. While Jesus had been
ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the
righteous dead, and then for the righteous living. Christ had received
His kingdom, having made the atonement for His people and blotted out
their sins. The subjects of the kingdom were made up. The marriage of
the Lamb was consummated. And the kingdom, and the greatness of the
kingdom under the whole heaven, was given to Jesus and the heirs of
salvation, and Jesus was to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords.”
Well it looks like a contradiction. But I have explained to you
that it has two meanings. There are two comings; the coming of Christ
the most holy of his temple by the Holy Ghost and when that latter rain
is poured out this temple is going to be purified and it will go with
Christ into the most holy, which is a symbolic thing of the holiness of
God. Isn’t that understandable? We follow Christ into the sanctuary,
the dwelling place of God. Putting it the other way around, He’s
knocking on the door. The Laodicean message, remember? He’s knocking on
the door. If any man opens the door, what happens?
(John) I will come in.
(Wilfred) And what?
(John) Sup with him.
(Wilfred) And sup with him. Do you see the reference there to the last
supper? And John 6?
And the former body and blood of Christ? If you
don’t eat my flesh and drink my blood you’ve got no life in you, Jesus
said. And that was a tough saying and a lot of people didn’t stay with
Him after that one. Because they didn’t understand what He meant. And I
hope that we won’t get hung up on that and not understand what He means
and throw it away, it’s vital. Why do you think He took time at that
last supper? He didn’t eat the Passover the way they normally ate it,
it was a new thing that He establish there. Why? Well because the
sacrificial service was finishing at the cross. Now He was going into a
new type of service, ministering his blood in the heavenly sanctuary and
what is his blood?
(John) His life.
(Wilfred) And what is his life?
(John) The Holy Spirit.
(Wilfred) Right. And He says I will pray the Father, there’s his
mediation, and He will send you what?
(Several voices) The Comforter.
(Wilfred) Another comforter. Which is the Holy Ghost. This is the soul
of Christ’s eternal life. This is the life which He relinquished in the
heavenly sanctuary before He took on humanity. He had to. He could not
have come in that form into humanity nor could He have gone to sleep,
God never sleeps. He had eternal life in himself; in order for Him to
die He had to relinquish it. And He had to die the second death, and in
order to die the second death He must first die the first one. So He
died the death of sleep. But before He did He gave up the Ghost. Just
like Jacob did and just like He did on the cross. On the cross He gave
up what Ghost?
(John) The Human Ghost.
(Wilfred) The Human Ghost. The same one that you and I have to give up
when we die. In the heavenly sanctuary what Ghost did He give up? The
Holy Ghost, eternal life, immortality, life in Himself. Who’s going to
(John) The saints.
(Wilfred) That’s exactly right. And Sister White says in The Desire of
Ages that He died the death which was ours, which is the eternal
she says which there is no hope of a resurrection, Early Writings, He
died that death, the death which was ours in order that we might
receive the life which WAS his. Is that plain? That’s in The Desire of
Ok, we got side tracked again here a little bit. I could give you text
for this Spiritual kingdom if you want them. Matt. 4:17 and Luke
17:20,21, Mark 1:15 and I’ll quote from the seventh volume of The
Testimonies for the Church, page 143. “The kingdom of God comes
with outward show. It comes through the gentleness of the inspiration
of His Word, through the inward working of His Spirit, the fellowship
of the soul with Him who is its life. The greatest manifestation of its
power” That is the Kingdom’s power. “Is seen in human nature
brought to the perfection of the character of Christ.” Don’t you
see there that the restoration of the Kingdom of God within you
constitutes the restoration of the perfection of the character of
Christ in you? See that? Or do you want me to read it again?
(A woman) Can you read the last sentence?
(Wilfred) All right. “The greatest manifestation of its power”. It’s
talking about the Kingdom. The power of the Kingdom of God. “The
greatest manifestation of its power is seen in human nature
brought to the perfection of the character of Christ.” She is
commenting here about these texts, Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is
at hand, Time is fulfilled and the Kingdom of God is at hand. The
kingdom of God cometh not with observation, the margin says, without show,
neither shall they say, Lo, here or Lo there for behold the Kingdom of
God is within you. That’s what he’s talking about. And that’s the one
that takes place when?
(John) During the marriage union.
(Wilfred) Right, so do you see then that the Kingdom is restored before
the close of probation? And it is given into the hands of Jesus she
says and the saints. Why? Why Jesus and the saints? O listen, because
Jesus and the saints constitute the new body of Christ which replaces
the one that He lived in before He came into the one in Mary’s womb.
Did you get that? He is the head of that new body and each of the
hundred and forty four thousand is a member in particular and it
takes them all to reconstruct the image of that former body.
They eat the flesh and drink the blood, they communed with God, they
open the door and He comes in to sup with them. When the Holy Ghost
comes to his temple suddenly to purify and cleanse them He brings also
the restoration of the former body and blood of Christ. And that has a
broader meaning, the body is his Word and the blood is his Spirit. And
when that word is put into those brain cells of yours and the Spirit
comes to water the soil to give life to the word there is reconstructed
in there the image of the mind of Christ. But it takes a hundred and
forty four thousand of them to replace that gigantic mind that Christ
relinquished when He took on that little brain of Jesus. Do you see the
condescension of Christ? See what He did? Well you may not believe that
but, if you don’t believe it just stick it the pantry shelf someday
you’ll see it,
(A woman) Mr. Johnson what did you say the blood represented?
(Wilfred) The life. It says that in the Old Testament. And the Spirit
of Prophecy says the life of Christ is the Holy Spirit.
Now The Desire of Ages
509, “Not by the decisions of courts or councils
or legislative assemblies, not by the patronage of worldly great men,
is the kingdom of Christ established,” Get this now! Here is how
the Kingdom of God is established again. The Kingdom of Christ. “But by
the implanting of Christ's nature in humanity through the work
of the Holy Spirit.” Isn’t that bearing out what I said? The mind
of Christ is reproduced in the human mind when the Holy Spirit is
implanted in humanity. That’s it.
Now what is the Holy Spirit? Well, It’s a mystery. There are aspects to
it, but one aspect of it is that it is the soul of Christ. I’ve given it
to you before. It was last Sabbath afternoon I think. It also says that
the Holy Spirit is the very life of Christ and it’s the life of the
Word and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, the Word was
Christ. So the Spirit is the life of Christ in that sense too.
All right. Oh I can’t help but to give you this one in passing,
although it’s not quite related, it’s not very closely related. This is
in John 5, 25 plus a little bit. 25 “Verily, verily, I say unto you,
The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of
the Son of God:” Oh yes, it is relevant I’m glad I read it. “The dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear
shall Live.“ And again it says, 28 “Marvel not at this: for
the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear
his voice, 29 And shall come forth;” What about those that are
blown to bits and those who are eaten by the sharks and those that are
cremated? It says here; all that are in the graves shall hear
his voice and come forth.
(John) I think the Bible talks of the grave as the place of death, the place of sleep.
(Wilfred) Good, that’s what I wanted to get.
(John) It isn’t a lliteral "being put in Loam".
(Wilfred) Good. Is everybody clear on that? That when the Bible talks
about the grave it’s not talking about a hole in the ground. And when
it says that the graves were opened and the dead came forth it may not
be talking about that. Have you got that point?
I am still leading up to something.
Furthermore I want to ask you this question. If a man is dead in the
grave how can He hear the voice of the Son of God? He would have to be
alive before he could hear the voice. But the Bible says he’s got to
hear the voice and then he becomes alive. Figure that one out.
(John) With most of those people there is no ears left. (Much laughter)
I don’t mean it to be funny they have been eaten by maggots, they’ve
grown into carrots, and leaves, and caterpillars everything else.
(Wilfred) We’ve got the point. We’ve got the point, when the Bible
talks about the dead hearing the voice of the Son of God and the graves
opening up and people coming out IT IS SYMBOLIC. It cannot be literal.
I think I’ve shown that, haven’t I? You don’t believe it maybe because
you have been steeped into the other philosophies for so long. Do you
remember that statement I read to you before, let’s see, where is it?
Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that there are not people who
come out of the grave but you are going to have to take that language
in the Bible as symbolic. You cannot take it literally. Lazarus came
out of the grave, Ok? I believe that.
(John) That was literal.
(Wilfred) That was literal. Jesus came out of the grave that was
literal. Moses came out that was literal. But every last one of these
people who came out, the widow’s son. There were two widow’s son. There
was the one that was raised in the days of Elijah and there were
others. But every last one of these came into a body that was still
there. That is the point I want you to get. I hope that you get that.
And it is in that sense that I say, when the Bible talks about the
graves opening and the people coming out that it is symbolic language,
it has to be. Because a dead man cannot hear the voice of the Son of
God until he is alive. So he was raised from the dead before he heard
the voice. Then how could the voice raise him from the dead? Do you
understand what I am saying? Or am I getting too difficult here?
Don’t forget this little caution; To say that a passage means just this
and nothing more that you must not attach any broader meaning to the
words of Christ than we have in the past is saying that which is not
actuated by the Spirit of God. Don’t forget that. You are going to come
across things in the Bible, and this is one of them where if you become
too literalistic in your thinking you’re going to miss a very important
point. We talk about Jesus coming into the heart and down in the
kindergarten we make a little heart you know paint it nice and red and
then we put covers on it, but before we put the covers on it we put a
picture of Jesus on it. Then we put the covers over the heart, and
there’s the heart. Then we talk to the little children and then we say
now when Jesus comes into your heart and then we tell them what happens
and then we open up the covers and see, there is Jesus in the heart.
Now what kind of notions are these kids getting anyway? I have heard
some good educators talk about this, although I thought about it before
they talked about it, but that means nothing I suppose. The reason I
thought about it and the reason I’m talking about it is, it made an
awful mess of my thinking for a while until I got straightened around
as to what kind of language God uses and what it means. And we want to
be careful how we teach these kids, not to give them such weird ideas
as Christ comes into your heart. Well I want to come into your heart,
why don’t we talk logically. Why don’t we translate that Bible language
into terms that the kids can understand?
Now what I am trying to do with you is to share some things that God,
or you can say the devil if you want to. But I’ve spent quite a few
years checking it in all directions to find out whether it’s God or the
devil and I can have only one conclusion in my own thinking and if I
didn’t have that conclusion I wouldn’t be talking to you tonight. But
God has permitted some of these things to become realistic in my
thinking. And that is a prayer I offered to Him many years back, I just
asked Him to make his Word realistic, sensible, logical, so that I
could understand it and it made sense then He could count on me
committing my life to Him because I didn’t feel I could do it without
understanding his Word. What can you do for others when you don’t
understand it yourself? For me to go around and tell somebody you must
let Jesus come into your heart I couldn’t fancy this because anybody
with half a brain could say back to me, What do you mean by that? And I
would say, well I don’t know. Well, what are you trying to tell me. I
can’t function that way. If a man ask me, what do you mean Jesus comes
into your heart? The Bible says that you have to be ready to give an
answer, that’s what it says. And I say; Lord I can’t give an answer.
Well then the Bible says; if you lack wisdom it tells you what to do.
Ask, and that is what I did, I asked. What else could I do? I asked
dozens and dozens of men, ministers and everybody and I couldn’t get
any answers that were any better than what I had and I am not
slandering ministers. I think the Lord permitted this to happen for a
specific reason. The same thing He did with William Miller. He let
William Miller preach for about twelve years that Christ was coming in
1843 and when He didn’t, well, 1844. And William Miller was telling
something that wasn’t strictly correct wasn’t he? But he was sincere
and honest and the Lord was behind him and God had a purpose in doing
it. And I think this is true. So don’t feel that I’m slandering
ministers, I’m simply trying to speak a situation. I could bombard you
with questions that you couldn’t answer and someone else who doesn’t
have faith in the Bible and the
Spirit of Prophecy someday is going to
bombard you with those questions. And I’m trying to do my level best to
fulfill my commitment to God to share with you what He showed me
because I asked Him to show it to me and He did it. And when I asked
Him to show it I said, if you do it I will do anything you want me to
do, not knowing what He was going to ask me to do. And then when He
asked me to do it, the Bible says, better that you should not make a
vow at all than that you make a vow and don’t fulfill it. So I’m
fulfilling my vow here tonight and next week at the risk of severe
criticism because I’m going to be talking about something that will be
very difficult for you to adjust to. But it comes right out of the
If you are willing to open that mind of yours to take a square look at
these paradoxes that there is no explanation for and then take a look
at the key, which I am going to give you, the key will resolve all
those paradoxes so they’ll fit and make sense. But you’ll say, oh, but
it can’t be like that. No, I can’t... That’s what you are going to say.
That’s what you are going to say. How do I know? Because people have
done it before. I know one fellow, an intelligent man, thirty years ago
that I gave that key to and he just rebelled against it. He as much has
told me that there was something wrong with me upstairs, I needed a
little attention. Today, he has thanked me for telling him. He has seen
that it answers the questions. And there are many people across the
nation who are coming up with these questions now, they’re coming up
and they haven’t got the answers and this man recognizes that he’s got
the answers and he knew where he got them thirty years ago.
How many of these do I need to read to reinforce your minds? Are you
convinced yet that God has some things for us that we probably haven’t
paid too much attention to yet? Let me read one. It’s from Christ’s
page 112 and I think that’s the old edition
one can search the Scriptures in the spirit of Christ without being
rewarded. When man is willing to be instructed as a little child,”
That’s the first condition. So you’d better put on your childish cloak.
“When he submits wholly to God,” So you’d better make
that total surrender. Those are two conditions now. If you don’t
do it you won’t see it. That’s what it’s saying. “He will find the
truth in His word. If men would be obedient,” That’s the third
one. “They would understand the plan of God's government.” That’s the
first thing they would understand, the plan of God’s
government. Have you been seeing any things about the plan of God’s
government in our discussions at all? Have you been seeing things about
God’s government? I hope you have. “The heavenly world would open
its chambers of grace and glory for exploration. Human beings would be
altogether different from what they now are,” Are you getting
this? I don’t know whether I am either I read it so many times that I
don’t think about what I’m reading. “The heavenly world would open
its chambers of grace and glory for exploration." Now can you go up
there and explore? Well then how is it going to open its chambers for
(A woman) Through the study of his Word.
(Wilfred) Through the study of his Word, there’s the explanation for it
there. And you may even have another experience something like Paul
had. Do you remember what happened to Paul? Yes, he says, I was caught
the third heaven, I don’t know whether I was in the body or not I don’t
know that, but I was caught up there. Did he do some exploring up
there? Yes, he did. And there are going to be people according to my
Bible in this last day that are going to have similar experiences.
“Human beings would be altogether different from what they now are, for
by exploring the mines of truth men would be ennobled.” Now here’s
the second thing that would happen. “The mystery of redemption,
would not be as it is now, vague in our minds, the incarnation of
Christ would not be as it is now, vague in our minds, That’s just
what she says only she puts the two together. I split them up. Now I’ll
read it as she said it lest somebody should accuse me of misquoting
it. “The mystery of redemption, the incarnation of Christ, and His
atoning sacrifice, would not be as they are now, vague in our minds,
They would be not only better understood, but altogether more highly
There are so many others I would like to read here. I’ve read them
before and I don’t like to have you feel that I’m repeating too much
but some of you folks weren’t here when we read them and you’ve got to
have them. Can I read just one more?
Education page 171. “God intends that to the earnest seeker the
of His word shall be ever unfolding.” That is you never hit
a dead-end street like the Laodiceans who think they have it all. You
are not going to do that. It’s supposed to ever unfold. And because the
Laodiceans have hit a dead-end street and they think they have it all,
according to the Laodicean message, God is going to spew them out of
his mouth and you read that article from last week I hope. “While the secret things belong unto the Lord our God, those things
which are revealed belong unto us and to our children. The idea that
certain portions of the Bible cannot be understood has led to neglect
of some of its most important truths.” Now listen, this is what I
want you to get. “The fact needs to be emphasized, and often
repeated,” And I’ll say right here that I have never heard it
emphasized once, not once, in all the years I have been an Adventist
until I read this myself. “And often repeated.” What should be
emphasized, and often repeated? Well here it is. “That the
mysteries of the Bible are not such because God has sought to conceal
truth, but because our own weakness or ignorance makes us incapable of
comprehending or appropriating truth.” I want to tell you
something, if you cannot understand some of the mysteries of God it’s
not because God is trying to hold them back from you. It’s because of
your weakness, you’re not old enough yet, you are too weak in the
Christian faith or ignorance. You haven’t studied enough or you haven’t
fulfilled these other conditions that I just read you. You know, being
like a little child, submitting wholly to God, obedient, you haven’t
fulfilled those conditions. That’s why you don’t understand God’s
mysteries. And when somebody talks to you about something and you say,
oh, no, that’s a mystery we don’t understand that, we’re not suppose to
understand that. Nobody understands that. Don’t ever talk like that.
Just because you don’t understand something in God’s Word that doesn’t
mean that somebody doesn’t. People just show their ignorance when they
talk like that. They are simply saying, Well I don’t understand it so
nobody else should, really, because after all look who I am. And what
they are really saying is, although they don’t know it, Well, I don’t
understand that because I’m ignorant or I’m weak, or I’m not obedient,
or I’m not submitting wholly to God, or I don’t have the attitude of a
little child. That’s what they are saying if these statements are
correct. I won’t say any more on those. I think I have read enough to
get the thought across but there are many more I could emphasize.
We’ve got about three quarters of an hour I guess. I’m going to
continue to lead up to something and when I think we are thoroughly
prepared and then I’ll zero in on it. And I may not get to it tonight.
But we will get as far as we can.
And meanwhile I hope that you will hang on to the things we’re
discussing tonight and next week. Hang on to them and don’t start
discussing them with someone else who is totally foreign to the things
we have been thinking about. They might get a missed concept of what we
are trying to do. And believe you me my motive in sharing this with you
is purely to fulfill my vow to God. I am not interested in causing a
commotion or causing confusion, or causing anyone mental
disturbance because of it. I’m interested in sharing the truth as it is
and as it will prove to be in a very short time. But God has said that
He will do nothing but what He first reveals it to his people. He is
not going to catch them by surprise. If they’re caught by surprise it
was because they were not studying. They were not watching, they were
not praying, they were not listening. It’s in the books, all the
paradoxes are in there, it’s in the Bible, the keys to understanding
the linking up of those paradoxes, it’s in the Bible and it’s in the
Spirit of Prophecy we just haven’t seen it.
Now, we are more the victims of the genes and the chromosomes and what
have you than perhaps we think we are. Maybe some of the things that we
do are the result of our inherited traits more than we think. Sometimes
we blame ourselves, yes, we should blame ourselves because the Spirit
of Prophecy says, that every inherited and cultivated tendency
doing may be over-come. So there really is no excuse for it. But they
could never have been over-come had it not been for the provision that
Christ made for that over-coming, that changing of the nature the
transforming of the heart through the agency of the Holy Spirit. And
that agency of the Holy Spirit in this particular aspect of its work
could not have been made available to us without the sacrifice of
Christ. She tells us that.
Now when we think of the sacrifice of Christ we usually again limit
ourselves to that episode in Gethsemane and the cross, don’t we? But
that was only the outward demonstration of something that had taken
place over a much longer span of time. However we won’t go into that
tonight. The sacrifice of Christ involved long suffering and that’s why
God declares Himself to be longsuffering. But the specific sacrifice
which was made in the heavenly sanctuary and confirmed at Gethsemane
and at the cross was the relinquishing of Christ’s eternal life which
was the Holy Ghost, the soul of his life. So that it could be made
available to repentant sinners. To recreate in them the image of the
Son of God so that they could become sons of God, joint heirs with
Christ. Does that mean anything to you? If Christ had not done it you
could not have shared his heritage. He gave his life for you to accept
according to the terms of his last will and testament. That was his
greatest heritage, was his eternal life and He gave it. And according
to the terms the Father was the one who was to execute that will and
that’s where Jesus comes in as the intercessor. It is in the hands of
the Father but the Father is honoring the terms of the will even though
it is difficult for Him to do it. Why is it difficult? Because He loves
his only begotten son and He had to give him to humanity. Not just give
Him up but give Him to humanity. That’s what it says. The Son is given
to humanity not just in the sense that He came to live in a human body
and He is going to live in a human body forever that is not the only
sense He gave his life to be shared. Jesus demonstrated that as clearly
as He could do it. He couldn’t do it any more clearly that I can see.
He’s told them specifically and He set up the communion service to
demonstrate it. And He says do this in remembrance of Me till I come. I
wonder how many of you see a deeper meaning than that?
(John) He is talking about his coming in the marriage service before
the close of probation.
(The end of C/D #51 and the beginning of C/D #52)
(Wilfred) Right, right. When the marriage union of the Lamb with his
saints has been consummated and the outpouring of the latter rain has
been completed and the union is finished then the image of the former
body and the blood of Christ is restore and the temple is restored if
you please. Destroy this temple He says and in three days I will raise
it up and I have explained to you how there are two meaning to that and
in this other meaning each day is a thousand years and on the third day
of those thousand years, and that’s now, the temple is to be restored.
When that temple is restored the significance of the communion service
is at an end just the same as the significance of the sacrificial
service was at an end when Jesus died on the cross. Its purpose is
terminated. You have remembered Him what?
(John) Till He comes.
(Wilfred) Till He comes. Now I’m not saying that you will not celebrate
the communion service after probation closes. I am not saying that, I
didn’t say that but I almost said it, didn’t I?
(Wilfred) All right now, I’m going to have time I think to bring to the surface
now some of these paradoxes that we are gong to need to put together
when we put the key in the door and turn the lock.
We talked about the shut door. In the shut door revelation they first
thought in 1844 and the bridegroom went in, they didn’t understand that
too well. But they had given the midnight cry and they had this parable
of the ten virgins and when they went in the door was going to be shut
and the ones who didn’t have oil in their lamps couldn’t get in. What
was their interpretation? What were they preaching prior to 1844? That
the door of mercy would be finished and Christ was going to come. Now
they were disappointed, Christ didn’t come. What was their conclusion
right after 1844? Well, at least the door was shut. Must be. The door
must be shut, something went shut in 1844. So that door must be shut
therefore no sinners could be saved the door of mercy to the world was
finished. That’s what they believed.
Now that was an error in a certain sense but they didn’t understand it
and shortly after that they came to the conclusion, well, it can’t be
that way, the door of mercy must still be open. Surely they can still do
work for sinners and they saw that the Spirit of God was working with
sinners. So they kind of changed their minds, see, and then the most
amazing thing happened, Sister White had a vision in December in which
she saw that the Midnight Cry which they had thought at first was in
the past and that the door was shut and no more mercy in which they had
changed their minds and thought now that it must be in the future, they
had given up the idea that it was in the past. By the time she had her
first vision she says that most of the band had given that up including
herself. She got this vision that the Midnight Cry was in the past it
was shining from behind but the light went on down and lit the path
ahead of them. Now her interpretation and the interpretation of some of
the others of the vision was that the Midnight Cry was finished. It did
take place back there but that there was something about it that was
still future and they didn’t understand it, they knew that the door of
mercy must still be open but here was an indication that it was still
in the past, this Midnight Cry thing, that the door was shut. So they
were still I think a little bit uncertain about it but Sister White
says that when she gave the vision, the ones who she told it to
believed it and accepted it even as she did.
Then she had a vision in February she saw the movement from the holy to
the most holy and then a few years later in 1849 that was corroborated
and she saw that the door to the holy apartment was shut and nobody
could open it and the door to the most holy was opened and nobody could
shut it. Now that became positive by 1849. In spite of the fact that
they were still working for sinners that the door of mercy still seemed
to be open she says, "But I still saw" and that is what she saw. Do you
see the dilemma? Now I think last week I read you a statement by her
husband that seems to contradict the one she gave, they seemed to be a
little confused on just what happened in there. But the fact is they
changed their minds they came to some wrong conclusions before the
visions and after the visions there appeared to be contradictions and
there seemed to be no resolution.
In another vision Sister White saw that as Jesus left the most holy of
the sanctuary He paused a moment to place on the head of the scapegoat
the sins that have been confessed by God’s people since He entered the
most holy place, that would be 1844. Which would indicate that there
was a special treatment of sins that were confessed since 1844. You got
that? And yet she does not explain it and in another place she speaks
of the sins of God’s people being placed on the head of the scapegoat,
it doesn’t say anything about 1844. Have you got my point? I’m trying
to show you that there is a problem here.
All right, let me make it clearer.
When the priest went into the daily service he took the blood into the
holy apartment and in doing so transferred the sins to that sanctuary,
she doesn’t say whether holy apartment or most holy she just says
sanctuary. And the sanctuary became polluted, on the Day of Atonement
which came once a year the priest took the blood into the holy
apartment and he shut the door and he opened the door to the most holy
and went on in the most holy and sprinkled the blood on the mercy seat
and I forget the details of where he put it. And that is not pertinent
to what I’m discussing at the moment. What I am discussing is you and I
were born since 1844. The high priest went into that most holy in 1844
and shut the door to the holy apartment and you have been confessing
sins ever since you became an Adventist or a Christian and have been
expecting that they were going in with the priest to the holy apartment
when he isn’t even in the holy apartment he’s gone in to the most holy
and the door to the tabernacle is closed, nobody can get in and the
people are outside afflicting their souls all during that day and
anybody who didn’t afflict his soul would be cut off from his people.
Pleading and agonizing for cleansing. Do you get the parallel? That’s
what we are supposed to be doing. Pleading and agonizing for what?
(Wilfred) Ok, what about the sins that you confessed? Does He forgive
them do you think? How can you explain it? There is something wrong
here. It just doesn’t add up.
(John) How do they get in?
(Wilfred) Now hang on to that until we get the key.
Then there is the delayed coming of Christ. If Christ had come when
Sister White said He could have come I wouldn’t have been here and
neither would some of you. Then what? You mean that Christ intended
that we should have never been born? Have we got a problem here? But He
delayed his coming, why, in mercy she says, because the people were not
ready. And while He was being merciful you and I came along and we got
in on it too, hopefully.
(A woman) Unintelligible
(Wilfred) Some of them. Some of them did but not all of them. Some of
them went to their graves and they are going to come up in the special
resurrection. Some of them went to their graves and will come up in the
first resurrection. Some of them went to their graves and they are
going to come up in the second resurrection. All right you got that
problem? How long is this going to go on anyway? Do you think God has a
time? Look, suppose we don’t get ready. Then the next generation is
going to come along and there will be more people born, well, then
let’s be kind to them and let’s not get ready so they have a chance but
we’ve been preaching all these years now, get ready, get ready, get
ready, after all if you don’t get ready you’re not going to get in. Who
were you thinking about? Who were the Advent preachers thinking about
when they said that? Come on. Self...? What’s God’s program?
(John) Self-renouncing love.
(Wilfred) How’s He going to bring that about?
(John) A revelation of his character and by declaring his people
righteous so that their motive will be different.
(Wilfred) Right. We have gone over all that.
Well, let’s get some more. Revelation
20:4, somebody want to look it up
and read it? All of these I think I have gone over before but I want
them to be fresh in your mind and it is unfortunate we can’t sit here
for another hour so I can give you the key while you still have it
fresh in your mind but I just can’t do it. And I feel that there is no
way I can do it until we go through these things and you have them
clear in your mind.
(John) Why don’t you read it Brother Johnson so it gets on the tapes?
(Wilfred) Ok, 4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and
judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which
had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received
his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
I forgot to bring a statement with me but I’ll tell you what it is.
What does he see here? “The souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus.” What does that sound like?
(Wilfred) Martyrs. So where are they?
(John) They are dead.
(Wilfred) As the Bible speaks of it they are in the grave. Right? Very
good. “And for the Word of God. And which had not worshipped the
beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands;” Now that statement loses its punch
when you look at another statement by Sister White that says, that
nobody has received the mark of the beast yet. That’s what she says.
And they won’t until it becomes a test and they refuse it. I mean they
refuse to accept the Sabbath test and receive the mark of the beast.
Now that doesn’t happen until the final trial comes upon God’s people.
And those who don’t receive the mark of the beast are going to go
through either to their graves to be asleep until the resurrection or
are going to go through to translation. Right?
(John) The ones who don’t receive the mark of the beast are going to go
through to translation.
(Wilfred) Well at that point of time, yes because the final test is
going to be proved after probation closes.
(John) But it seems to be talking in this text about one particular
group of people.
(Wilfred) I’ll have to correct that a little so you don’t misunderstand
it. The decision will be made before the close of probation. The
decision will be made before the close of probation. But when probation
closes there’s no changing and those who don’t receive the mark of the
beast will go on through. And they receive what?
(John) The seal of God.
(Wilfred) That’s what she says specifically, that’s what I wanted. I
couldn’t quite think of what it was. That’s it, they receive the seal
of God and then they go on to translation. Now tell me, it says here
that they are dead, and you told me that they are in the graves. And if
the statement applies to the time when they were living it has no
significance because nobody receives the mark of the beast at that
time, she says. And I am just waiting for someone to say, oh well, she
has another statement that they do. Nobody has said anything yet. If
you find one I would like you to have it because it would be important.
What I am trying to say is, here John saw some people that were dead
yet they were alive on the earth at the time that the mark of the beast
became significant. That’s what I am trying to point out to you.
The next one. I think you will find this one in Revelation 11 Just
before I read it I want to point out to you that the apostle Paul talks
about the resurrection and he says that the resurrection is going to
take place, when?
(John) At the last trump.
(Wilfred) At the last trump. Now when you talk about the last trump you
are talking about a series of trumpets aren’t you? Aren’t you or are
(Another man) There must be a first one.
(Wilfred) There must be a first one at least. Now where do you find a
series of trumpets?
(John) In the book of Revelation.
(Wilfred) Yes, The only set of trumpets that is prophetic in the sense
of time, that would identify the time of something are the seven
trumpets of Revelation
that I could find. And he says the resurrection
is due at the seventh trumpet when it sounds. Right? So the seventh
one is given in Revelation 11 verse 15. Let’s have a look at what it says
to see if we can identify it. 15 “And the seventh angel sounded; and
there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world
are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall
reign for ever and ever.” Does that give you a key?
(John) The Kingdom is restored.
(Wilfred) And when does that begin?
(John) Before the close of probation.
(John) At the marriage union.
(Wilfred) When does that start?
(Wilfred) Right you are. That’s when the seventh trumpet began to sound
in 1844. Let’s read on. 16 “And the four and twenty elders, which
sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped
God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art,
and wast, and art to come because thou hast taken to thee thy great
power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath
is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged,” Ahhhhh,
we are coming to something here. It’s talking about the dead.
Seventh trumpet, last trump, resurrection, the dead, the dead what?
They are going to be?
(Wilfred) Judged. “And that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets,
and to the saints, and them that fear thy name,” Who are being
judged the wicked or the righteous?
(John) The righteous.
(Wilfred) Looks like the righteous doesn’t it? “Them that fear thy name small and great; and shouldest destroy them
which destroy the earth.” Now how can He destroy them that destroy
the earth until after He has judged all the righteous and gotten them
out? What did he do in the day of Lot and Sodom? He got them first and
that’s what He’s going to do again, well this is all given in our books
if you want to study it. 19 “And the temple of God was opened in
(John) That’s in 1844.
(Wilfred) How do you know?
(John) Because if you read on it’s...
(Wilfred) Right. It was opened of course when Christ descended first
wasn’t it? The door to the holy was opened but now in 1844 the door of
the holy was shut and the door of the most holy was opened. And I read
to you last week I think from Early Writings where she saw that not
until he went into the most holy, no, what was it? Ahhhhh, I can’t
recall it. It had something to do with his moving from the holy to the
most holy and that it occurred in 1844 and when it occurred the law and
the commandments shone out, brought to light, see?
(A woman) That was in connection with that 1849 vision.
(Wilfred) Yes. I guess it was. Do you remember just what it said? “And
there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an
earthquake, and great hail “ And so on.
(John) You missed the part that says, “And there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament:” So this must refer to the most
(Wilfred) Right, right. So we’ve identified the time of the seventh
trumpet haven’t we?
(Wilfred) And we have identified something that is going to happen to
the dead in Christ.
(Same woman) Judgment begins in 1844.
(Wilfred) Judgment begins and then He’s going to give rewards. Well, I
guess we are not quite ready to go into the other aspects of that just
now let’s dive into some others. Without looking these up I think
you know them well enough. Do you remember what the apostle Paul said
when he was describing the resurrection? He said the dead in Christ
shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with them in the clouds so shall we ever be with the Lord. Did
we quote that pretty well correct?
(Wilfred) Let me quote it another way. Then we which are dead shall
rise first and those who are alive and remain shall be caught up
together with us to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be
with the Lord. Did you get that?
(John) It doesn’t say......
(Wilfred) It’s getting too late to pick up that I guess. Is that what
(John) One places Paul as among the group that will remain and the
other, the last one that is not found in the Bible places him as one
who is in the grave and will be resurrected.
(Wilfred) Now let me ask you, did Paul know which group he was going to
(Wilfred) Or was he making a mistake?
(Same woman) Isn’t it Peter who said many of those things that he said
they didn’t understand?
(Wilfred) You’ve missed my point I think.
(John) Paul wrote, All scripture is given by inspiration of God, what
Paul wrote was correct whether he understood it or not...
(Wilfred) All right. So what you said is right. But I think you missed
the point that I was trying to bring out and that is not your fault
because I’m so poor at pumping these things. Now something else I
wanted to point out here.
In Sister White’s first vision when she was with the hundred and forty
four thousand and all the redeemed. They were visiting the city and
then they came out of the city and Jesus was leading them and they were
up to mount Zion and on the route they saw these never fading flowers
and they saw the children picking these never fading flowers and with
there little wings they could fly up the mountain or they could walk
up, that’s what she saw. And as they got up to the door of the temple
on Mount Zion, and the temple as you know is the dwelling place of God,
the place where God meets with his people if you want to put it that
way. Jesus turned, raised his voice and said; only the hundred and
forty four thousand enter this place. Have you got that?
Now turn over a little bit in her book in that same vision and you’ll
find that she said the living saints, and that is still while they are
on the earth here during those last movements, the living saints, one
hundred and forty four thousand in number knew and understood the voice
that spoke from heaven. The hundred and forty four thousand are the
living saints on the earth who go through to translation. That is what
I am trying to say.
(Same woman) Where does she say that?
(Wilfred) First vision in Early
Writings. Did you follow me? Now who goes into the temple on
(John) The hundred and forty four thousand.
(Wilfred) Those who live on the earth going through the seven last
plagues and are translated. They go into the temple in Mount Zion. Why?
Because they are the ones who have attained to the fullness of the
stature of Christ and who demonstrate while the mediator has
disappeared from his office. They demonstrate that they live without
sin before a Holy God even as Jesus demonstrated in his day. Did you
get the point? These are the ones that go into the temple on Mount Zion,
these are the over-comers. So Jesus has to say to the apostle Paul,
sorry Paul you made a mistake down there when you wrote that. You can’t
come in here because you didn’t live at the right time. Got my point?
As long as you’ve got my point that’s all that I want. I am not asking
from you an explanation, I’m not expecting you to answer, I’m just
wondering if you got the point?
Let’s try another one? After Jesus was resurrected and He was talking
to his disciples before his ascension He called to Peter and He said,
Peter do you love me? And Peter said, yes I do. And Peter had had that
experience about denying his Lord and he had been converted, he had a
change of heart. But he hadn’t been fully converted. So the Lord asked
him again, Peter, do you love me? Yes I do. Feed my sheep. Peter, do
you love me? You know I love you Lord. Peter’s impatience showing up
here. Feed my lambs. And the reason I said Peter hadn’t been fully
converted, do you know what it is? Because immediately, Peter started
thinking about that fellow over there by the name of John who had
leaned on the saviour’s bosom at the last supper. He sort of had a
better place than Peter had. Do you get it? And he said, well what’s
this fellow over here going to do? And the Lord said to Peter, not in
these words but I’ll make it plain, it’s just not any of our business
Peter. But what He really meant was, Peter you’re still thinking in
terms of yourself and your own exaltation. When are you going to be
converted Peter? What’s the matter with you anyway? How long is it
going to take? He didn’t say that out loud. I mean He just said this,
what is that to thee? And before He said that He made this statement,
and before I make that statement let me refer to one that I read to you
before, that all the sayings or statements of Jesus have a meaning
beyond their unpretending surface. What you see on the surface has got
another meaning. Every statement of Jesus, she said.
Now here’s one; He said if I will that he remain till I come what is
that to thee? Did you ever wonder why He said that? Why didn’t He just
say, Well, what difference does it make to you Peter what happens to
John? You feed my sheep when you are converted. Why didn’t He just say
that? Because he wanted to write a message to you. That’s why. There’s
a deeper meaning in there that He wanted you to understand. And the
reason He wrote it that way, and I have explained this before, the
reason that the Bible is written in this peculiar fashion is the fact
that Christ is dealing with the most intelligent mind in the universe
outside of his own, the devil and He wants to beat the devil. And He’s
got to use a little strategy. He can’t tell a lie, He’s got to tell the
truth but the devil can tell lies but God doesn’t do that. But God puts
his truth into the tapestry of the book and it’s woven in and you‘ve
got to pick out a little piece here and a little piece there and all of
a sudden you see the pieces come together and they make sense. Is that
right or is that wrong?
(John) The Holy Spirit is...
(Wilfred) That’s right. And the Holy Spirit is the one that puts it
together. Now all these years that statement has been in there and I
wonder how many people have understood it? I just wonder. But the
disciples jumped to a conclusion which wasn’t correct. But it may have
been more correct than they thought it was. Do you know what the
conclusion was that they jumped to?
(John) That John would tarry until He came.
(Wilfred) They believed that John was going to remain alive on the
earth until Jesus came and they thought Jesus was coming pretty soon so
that wasn’t stretching their imagination too far. But John has been in
the grave a long, long time, he’s as dead as a door nail.
Did you know that Jesus said that John was going to prophesy again
before many nations, kindreds, tongues and peoples? Did you know that?
You’ll find it in Revelation.
When Jesus came to John the Revelator on
the isle of Patmos He told him to write everything that he heard and
saw and John faithfully did it. He faithfully wrote everything he heard
and saw. Then at this point where the Seven Thunders uttered their
voices John says, I was about to write and the angel told me not to,
the angel said don’t write John, stop because you are going to prophesy
again before many nations, kindreds, tongues and peoples so you don’t
write that. There was something that the Lord did not want John to
reveal at that point of time and that John would again prophesy. Now,
do you know what we say about that? We say sure because John’s book of Revelation has now been
unfolded to us and he is now prophesying again
through his book of Revelation.
(John) And Sister White verifies that.
(Wilfred) And Sister White verifies that but let me point out to you
that John has still has not revealed what the Seven Thunders uttered.
But Sister White said something about it, do you remember what it is
(John) Yes, she said it’s delineation, there is a real mystery in the
Bible Commentary 7 vol. page 971 she says that it is a
the events taken place under the first, second, and third angels
message. Would you like me to read the statement?
(Wilfred) Yes, ok.
(John) “The mighty angel who instructed John was no less a personage
than Jesus Christ. Setting His right foot on the sea, and His left upon
the dry land, shows the part which He is acting in the closing scenes
of the great controversy with Satan. This position denotes His supreme
power and authority over the whole earth. The controversy had waxed
stronger and more determined from age to age, and will continue to do
so, to the concluding scenes when the masterly working of the powers of
darkness shall reach their height. ... But the mighty angel demands
attention. He cries with a loud
voice. He is to show the power and authority of His voice to those who
have united with Satan to oppose the truth.”
“After these Seven Thunders uttered their voices, the injunction comes
to John as to Daniel in regard to the little book: “Seal up those
things which the Seven Thunders uttered.” These relate to future events
which will be disclosed in their order.”
(Wilfred) Ok. You got that?
(John) She goes on to say, “The special light given to John which was
expressed in the Seven Thunders was a delineation of events which would
transpire under the first and second angels' messages.” In other
words it’s in our time since 1844.
(Wilfred) Right. Now can I quickly finish because my tape is just about
gone and there is something that I want to bring in to clinch this
John was one of the apostles who was with Jesus, he leaned on his bosom
at the last supper, he was very dear to the Lord, one of his closest
human friends with whom He had intimate fellowship. And He told those
disciples, He said, you can’t go with me now but you can later, that
where I am there you may also be. Remember that? Now here is Jesus
walking up to the temple on Mount Zion and here is John coming along
with them and Jesus turns around and says, John, sorry you can’t come
in because you didn’t live at the right time. Is that what you think He
is going to say? Honestly now? Honestly? In every statement that Jesus
makes including the one to John about the Seven Thunders there is a
meaning we have not yet grasped. John the Revelator will be on the
earth among the hundred and forty four thousand and so will the apostle
Paul. And you say how can that possibly be?
(Another man) Is that the special resurrection?
(Wilfred) It is related to it but here is another problem and there are
just dozens of problems here and that’s why this thing is so difficult
and confusing and that’s why I’m appealing to you to be cautious,
discreet, and patient. The special resurrection is not culminated until
just before Jesus comes. But the hundred and forty four thousand are
alive on the earth before that so there is another problem. I am going
to give the key to this thing see, I promised I’m going to give it and
I hope that you’ll promise me, you don’t have to do it out loud, that if
you cannot grasp it, if it is too difficult for you to encompass that
you will at least be courteous and kind enough to put it on a shelf and
not to agitate it. Because it is a truth that will cause agitation when
it is discussed. And I have already shown you that the sword of the
Lord is coming upon his people, it’s coming but don’t go ahead of the
angel that’s leading the people.
God will open up the door for the spreading of his message when it is
due and according to his means, He’ll do that. It is not for man to
decide, “Now I’m going to do this today or I’m not going to do this
today.” John read you that statement of Jesus, He never made any plans
for Himself and He was the Son of God. And when it comes to your
relationship to God and the proclamation of his closing message to
God’s people to prepare them to go through the final conflict. Don’t be
indiscreet, if you do she says you’ll have to retrace every step and it
will be a bitter experience. I’m not too sure but what there may not be
another meaning in that book that John ate there. That was so sweet to
his mouth but bitter to his stomach, there may be some meaning in that.
You say Johnson why are you telling us these things? I’m telling them
to you because there is something going to happen in the midst of God’s
people within a very short time that will throw you off your feet if
you don’t understand it. And the devil is counterfeiting it all over
the place. And many of God’s people are going to say it’s just another
one of the devil’s counterfeits and you are going to have to be mighty
sure of yourself before you will be committed to trusting God. You are
facing the climax of the great controversy, that’s what you are facing,
I say "You" but I’m included. But I want to make it pointed. It will
deceive if it were possible the very elect, the devil will. And how
will he do it? With his delusions, deceptions, and with his
counterfeits, that’s how he’ll do it.
Can you be kind enough to just bear with me until I get a chance to
bring all this to you so that you can see at least that I’m aiming at
something tangible rather than leaving you in mid air like I’m doing
tonight? Don’t think that I’m, ahhhhhhh, how should I put it? You may
think that I’m moving out on a limb here or something. I’m moving out
onto a truth that is very, very, involved. It ties in with many
different conundrums in the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy and
it will be difficult to see it click and if you don’t see it click it’s
going to bother you, it’ll bother you. But if you make up your mind to
just leave it on the shelf until such time as it makes sense to you
then it shouldn’t. And I know people who have had to do that for
several years, they had to do it for several years and finally it
clicked and they saw it. It doesn’t mean that if you don’t see it right
away that you don’t have the Spirit of God and you’re a heretic or
you’re a something else and that you are not going to make it. Nor does
it mean that I’m a heretic and you are the one that’s right and you
don’t see it because I’m all wrong anyway and it doesn’t mean that
either. It simply means that we do not all have the same kind of minds;
we do not all think the same. I can’t forget the time I walked up the
hall in the basement of the church passed the junior or one of the
lower primary rooms and some youngster came out to me with a little
card you know with that picture of Christ in the melting snow and I had
never seen it before and she held it up in front of me and she says,
Can you see it? Can you see it? And I said see what? Christ, can you
see Christ there? No I just see a bunch of black and white blotches,
that’s all I could see. She said, but can’t you see it? And I thought
she was just making fun of me and I thought that for quite a while
because other people starting showing this picture and they put it up
in the prayer meeting room. And it took me several weeks before I saw
that and I think I told some of you once the situation under which that
happened which was rather odd. But it is like seeing the truth of God,
you cannot see it until the Spirit comes and clicks it in your mind,
that’s all there is to it. And you cannot order the Spirit around. I
can’t show it to you, I can’t do it but I can try to give you all the
pieces that belong to it, which I’m doing. I’m trying to bring all the
pieces in that belong to this puzzle. And then I’m going to give you
the key that answers the puzzle. And if you see it, fine, if you don’t
see it don’t worry about it but please don’t agitate it until you’re
ready for trouble.
You say why am I agitating it? I am not agitating it I have shared this
with very, very few people, very few. Some of them are down in the
general conference in charge of research, some of them are conference
ministers, some of them are my personal friends that I can trust and a
few of them are people I guess I can’t trust and I’ve learned the hard
way. And why am I doing it now? Because my days on this earth are
numbered and I have an obligation to God. I promised Him that I would
do it and that was the hardest decision I have ever had to make. The
hardest decision I have ever had to make was when I made my first move
to fulfill that commitment and I’m simply continuing in that commitment
as God gives me the direction. And that’s why I’m doing it and I know
full well what the results will be, I’m fully aware of it, I’m not going
in blind. And I’m warning you so that you’ll use a little judgment.
There are some things that you just don’t share with everybody until
you recognize that it's time to do it.
Do you realize that the devil is counterfeiting the resurrection today?
Are you aware that Sister White says that he is going to counterfeit
the resurrection of the apostles? And do you realize that if the
apostles are going to be among the hundred and forty four thousand and
go with Jesus into the temple on Mount Zion where He promised them that
they could go? That they have to be here among the hundred and forty
four thousand, do you realize that? Otherwise the statements are wrong,
the Bible is not true, and the
Spirit of Prophecy is not true.
You can’t solve the problem, you’re up against a brick wall. How is God
going to do it? How is God going to do it? Well, He’s going to do it.
He promised those disciples they were going to be with Him where He
went. He told John he was going to prophesy again. The apostle Paul saw
that he was among those who are living. Sister White said that she saw
that she would be what the angel told her that she would be with the
hundred and forty four thousand, How’s He going to do it?
(John) Daniel would stand in his lot.
(Wilfred) Daniel would stand in his lot. Well, just keep your mind
open, invite the Spirit of God to hang on to you and study the books
and ultimately you’ll see how God’s going to do it.
I’m going to talk about it further next week. But I haven’t any more
time to do it tonight, at least I don’t want to take any more time I
have already gone over my tape which poses a problem now because it
goes on to another tape and it will get irregular. But I’ll go on next
week from where I left off. And if you’ve got part of it on another
tape just go on from there and I’ll try to keep it within the two hours
There are other problems still involved here that I haven’t dealt with
yet. And then I’m going to show you the key. And I’m going to show you
where the Bible gives us the key and I hope that you’ll see the
solution. And it will be a surprise as it was to me. And it will be a
difficult surprise because there are minds that are so rigid that they
will never move out to accept the thought. And these people if they are
faithful and true to God and do not lose their faith in God through the
time of trouble that he will permit them to go through He’ll accept
them and put them to sleep until the time of the indignation is passed.
But those who understand and commit themselves to God and say, Lord I
am willing to go with you, they will go through and God is waiting for
those people. He’s waiting for those people. He is anxiously waiting
with yearning desire for the manifestation of Himself in his people and
when that character shall be perfectly reproduced then He will come to
claim them as his own. But He is not going to put them through that
experience until they have been forewarned and have had a chance to
prepare to meet Him and that is what we are doing. And you need to
understand this key in order for you to go through and stick it out.
(A woman in the audience) ...can you give us a Bible text
(Wilfred) You mean for tonight?
(Same woman) Unintelligible
(Wilfred) No, I can’t do that. I’ll have to deal with it. It’s too
difficult I simply have to deal with it as best as I’m able. I’ll do my
level best to clarify it and beyond that I can’t go, it will be up to
the Spirit of God to do it. I am not the only one who has seen this,
there was an official from eastern U.S.A who visited me once and told
me that this was not the first time they had encountered this
particular thing because the problems are there and there is a solution
and somebody is bound to see some of it. And somebody has and the devil
is one of them and he sure is doing everything he can to prepare your
minds to reject it.
(Same woman) I have another question?
(Same woman) You said that your days were certainly numbered; you don’t
mean...you say that you are normally in good health...
(Wilfred) Does it make any difference?
(Same woman) Well, I care.
(Wilfred) I have a job to do and when it’s done I have no excuse for
being around I guess. When I get it done I’m working at it to the best
of my ability.
She says that the work will be finished under the most difficult
circumstances and believe you me I know what that means. It’s almost
impossible sometimes to carry on, just about impossible. Like tonight,
I did not have my material organized, I could have organized it very
neatly it would have taken me many hours to do it but there was no way
I could get the time to do it. There too many worldly things that are
more important that have to be done or else you don’t love them any
more and that type of thing. Including you folks you would be
disappointed with me for instance if I didn’t get that tape for you.
And I guess some of you may be. You have no idea of what type of a
situation I’m working against with no reflection on anybody. The devil
is behind the whole business and I know that. And it’s not an easy
thing for me to come here and deal with this subject like this and
that’s why I’m not doing as good a job as should be done but I’m doing
the best I can under the circumstances. It’s not easy to deal with some
of these subjects as thoroughly as they ought to be dealt with when it
is impossible to get them adequately put together. There are text and
passages that I should have had to read right along with everything I
have been saying right off the bat but I just have not been able to
collect them. In fact I can’t remember all these passages just off hand
I just don’t have that kind of a mind. I am dependent on God to bring
these things to me when I need them. Many times because I haven’t had
an opportunity to get them. I can sit at home and plan them out and
write up the outline or the whole story but I can’t do it unless I have
the opportunity and that means to be completely isolated. I would have
to be completed isolated from interferences. Which you can’t do in this
world today, I mean I have responsibilities, family and friends. I’m
carrying them out as best I can under the circumstances and sometimes
it’s a toss-up as to what do I do now? Do I do the Lord’s bidding or do
I do his other bidding which is to love your neighbor as yourself,
which comes first? Nine times out of ten I have done the thing that
considers by neighbor. I am glad that I serve that kind of a God. He
does not spank me because I didn’t do what He wanted me to do. I don’t
know whether you understand what I’m saying or not.
(Another man) According to what you are saying about this passage in
the Bible Moses and Elijah will come back to this earth too before the
(Wilfred) I’ve never seen were it says Moses will come back but it does
say that Elijah will.
(Same man) ...couldn’t that mean in spirit...?
(Wilfred) Well you can speculate, it definitely is in spirit because
Jesus explained that. He explained that John the Baptist came in the
Spirit and power of Elijah.
(Same man) ...usually there is a counter part to everything that
exists and that there are evil spirits which it just stands to reason
that there should be good spirits to counteract the evil spirits.
(John) I think a graphic Bible text on this subject is Job, he said,
The worms after destroy this body yet in the latter day I shall stand
upon the earth and in my flesh shall see God and not another.
(Wilfred) Well of course this applies to the resurrection.
(Same man) These people became one with Christ and when they became one
with Him their mind and spirit became his and in that they are still
(Wilfred) I was going to deal with that subject in the spirit and in
the power one time I don’t think I ever got to it. There are some
things in there that I could I suppose talk about. Jesus came in the
spirit and power of Christ but He was Christ. John the Baptist came in
the spirit and power of Elias and Jesus said he was Elias but John said
he wasn’t so obliviously John didn’t know that he was if he was. And
neither did Jesus when He was a little boy know that He was Christ but
sooner or later He found out. Now the question as to whether the
literal Elijah returned that’s another thing. I don’t feel prepared to
deal with that until we deal with this other subject if we deal with it
at all. But it will certainly reveal itself in short order if it is
true. We don’t have to worry about it. Sister White applied the
statement also to her own experience. She considered herself to be one
who would come in the spirit and power of Elijah and she complained
that they were not accepting the message just like the Jews back in the
old days. You find that in Testimonies
to Ministers and also in 1st
Selected Messages. But
she does make the statement that somebody is to
come in the spirit and power of Elijah and when he appears men may say,
you are too earnest you do not interpret the scriptures in the proper
way. Let me tell you how the teach your message. I quoted that word for
word. And she said that in connection with, the Jews tried to stop the
proclamation of the message. But prophecy must be fulfilled and then
she goes on to say. Behold I send you Elijah then she says somebody is
to come just like that. But after we complete this other subject here I
think you will be better equipped to understand that prophecy than you
are at the present moment.
(Same woman) With spiritualism being as strong as it is there will be
some kind of a test in order for a person to recognize whether Paul is
(Another man) She gives all the tests of a true prophet. ...she gives
(Wilfred) Well the Bible gives us the Key and I’m going to give that to
you. And you may not accept it as such that’s your privilege, I’m not
here to say what you should believe or what you shouldn’t believe and
your impression of me and what I’m trying to do may change when I give
it to you, that’s your privilege. But I would like to make this appeal
to you, check the message that we’ve been talking about. We’ve got hours
and hours of tapes, there must be at least a hundred to two hundred
hours of tape recorded of things that we have discussed. Check it and
if you find anything in there that is not in accordance with the
scriptures I’ll be the first one to renounce it if you show it to me. I
can’t take a better attitude than that. But you’ve got to be able to
show it to me and answer the questions.
(Same woman) Well Satan wouldn’t raise anyone up to support the Sabbath.
(Wilfred) He might.
(John) He has right now, look at this fellow now down in California.
(Another man) Ted Armstrong.
(John) I mean the track of truth and error lie close together the
counterfeit so resembles the true that it’s almost impossible to see
the difference. When Satan comes he comes quoting scripture. He’ll
quote the same gracious words that the Saviour used when He was here
upon the earth. He will raise his hands in blessing upon the people.
(Wilfred) And He will counterfeit everything God has done, is doing,
and is about to do.
(John) Brother Johnson there is a statement that says that just before
God is about to do something he counterfeits it.
(Wilfred) Right. And there is nothing... Well we’ll talk about it
It’s very obvious once you see it, the whole thing comes together and it
solves present dilemmas but it raises new ones and if it didn’t do
that God’s truth would be static it would come to a dead end street.
But because it brings out new Orions it is to be explored and you go on
from there and pretty soon you’ll find more dilemmas and then you get a
key that fits those together. And lo and behold another
dilemma shows up and so on. It just keeps unfolding and unfolding.
(Another man) That’s good because intelligent minds would get tired and
(Wilfred) Right. That’s exactly right. God’s truth never comes to an
(Same man) I got sick before over the same thing over and over for
years that’s one reason you get kind of... well you know what I
(Wilfred) Right. She says that the tame dull sermonizing will cease.
Well am sorry if I have tired some of you out tonight. If any of you
want to see this article you are welcome to see it.
(The conclusion of this two C/D series on
Contradictions and Problems)